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WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

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Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#61

Post by vel0city »

budman1 wrote: post #40
VorpalWay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actual maximum data throughput is very hard to know. The only way to really "know" how much data can flow through a cable is with an expensive oscilloscope or cable tester. Couldn't you just do a data transfer test over the cable and check the error rate? At least in theory, the controller might not report enough I guess.

If you are just wanting "to use it", sure. If you are building a cable for a specific purpose, or want to actually ensure that it will work, use test equipment. IT interconnect closet vs. air vehicle.

> If you are just wanting "to use it", sure.

Isn't that what most people here are really wanting? I don't imagine most people here are seriously wanting to know the exact extreme measurements, just "can this cable reasonably do what I need from it? Does it do what it claims on the label generally?"

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#62

Post by selicos »

ssl-3 wrote: post #57
robot_jesus wrote: post #11

I'm curious if this also works for USB-A to USB-C. The use case: My Suburu has USB-A inputs and only allows wired Carplay. When I upgraded my iPhone and ditched Lightning, I had to try 6 different cables from my cable drawer to find one that supported data transfer. I have so many cables I've accumulated over the years, I should either purge or at least categorize the functionality of each.

Your Subaru+iPhone combo already tests that capability, does it not? Just purge the known-bad cables already. :) (Gather them up and scrap them if the landfill seems like a harsh destination.) In a situation of surplus, there's no reason I can think of where keeping charging-only cables around has merit. Later on, if you need a cable that very specifically can do USB 3 speeds, then: Use a flashlight and look inside o…

I keep charge only cables for traveling. I don't trust the USB port in whatever I'm connecting to so the power only cable comes out.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#63

Post by ssl-3 »

selicos wrote: post #62
ssl-3 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Subaru+iPhone combo already tests that capability, does it not? Just purge the known-bad cables already. :) (Gather them up and scrap them if the landfill seems like a harsh destination.) In a situation of surplus, there's no reason I can think of where keeping charging-only cables around has merit. Later on, if you need a cable that very specifically can do USB 3 speeds, then: Use a flashlight and look inside o…

I keep charge only cables for traveling. I don't trust the USB port in whatever I'm connecting to so the power only cable comes out.

I don't trust a random, in-the-wild USB port to provide sane power, so I bring my own charging stuff. :)

That said: My travel tends to happen with my own car, and that travel is never international. I can see how a charge-only cable would be beneficial for others.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#64

Post by remuskaos »

traceroute66 wrote: post #28
bestouff wrote: post #3

I'm using the hardware tester from Treedix in which you have to plug both ends of the cable and which tests a lot of things, I'm quite fond of it. I have a basket with a lot of USB-c cables and without the tester I can't remember (nor guess) which one does what.

> I'm using the hardware tester from $INSERT_NAME_HERE Oh god not again... before everyone starts naming their favourite brand, here's a 265 comment HN thread[1] (from last week !) on why these cheap USB-cable "testers" are not worth anything. TL;DR You need a six-figure wallet to seriously call anything a "hardware tester" for USB cables. User ChrisMarshallNY has a one-liner summary buried in that thread: Think abou…

Man you're missing the mark.

If I want to tell a cable that can do only USB 2 from one that can do 3 from one that is actually thunderbolt, the treedix is a godsend. So. Many. Devices. Come with some unknown usb cable. Can it only charge? Transfer data? How fast? Stuff like signal integrity, dispersion, differential timing, phase shift etc are totally out of scope for this simple thing - telling apart these cables.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#65

Post by ssl-3 »

VorpalWay wrote: post #36
nerdsniper wrote: post #25

Something that keeps needing to be pointed out every thread this stuff appears on: What these tools report are not functionally different from just believing "what's on the packaging", despite the misleading marketing claims. These tools read a chip called an "eMarker". These eMarkers are programmed to say whatever the manufacturer wants them to say - there's no requirement that the information be based in reality. P…

> Actual maximum data throughput is very hard to know. The only way to really "know" how much data can flow through a cable is with an expensive oscilloscope or cable tester. Couldn't you just do a data transfer test over the cable and check the error rate? At least in theory, the controller might not report enough I guess.

Sure.

It's just like ethernet networks in this way: We can examine a cable and see if it works by plugging in some regular gear with it, and look at the success/error rate. Lots of people do this. It's an empirical way to see if a cable is good enough today, under present conditions, as a binary pass/fail state.

Or: We can examine a cable using specialized gear to characterize its performance, and then: We measure not just if the cable is good enough for today, but how close it is to the edge of acceptance it is. This allows a fantastic cable that is exceptionally excellent to be discerned from the ones that may be merely good-enough-under-present-conditions edge-cases.

From there, it may in fact be sane to suggest that the better-performing cable is likely to have better longevity as it inevitably degrades from human factors like...using the thing.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#66

Post by ssl-3 »

vel0city wrote: post #61
budman1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are just wanting "to use it", sure. If you are building a cable for a specific purpose, or want to actually ensure that it will work, use test equipment. IT interconnect closet vs. air vehicle.

> If you are just wanting "to use it", sure. Isn't that what most people here are really wanting? I don't imagine most people here are seriously wanting to know the exact extreme measurements, just "can this cable reasonably do what I need from it? Does it do what it claims on the label generally?"

People don't want "reasonably do". They want "resolutely do".

They don't say it like that, but: They sure do get grumpy when the Thunderbolt-connected display for their laptop shits the bed mid-afternoon on a Wednesday after a year, or the export for their recording session fails on a device they've done this with dozens of times before, or the cable connecting the camera they use to watch their cats no longer works: They get quite grumpy about these things, indeed.

So they want resoluteness, not reasonableness.

I know it's 2026 and many of us are used to using bots that are compulsively high-confidence liars.

But just go ahead and try to reason with someone about a local computer that fails tasks apparently-randomly. That's the makings of a bad scene. :)

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#67

Post by stouset »

traceroute66 wrote: post #48
lloydatkinson wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting there is no middle ground and that simply knowing if a USB-C cable is a USB C cable or a fake one can't be done with a cheap tester?

> Are you suggesting there is no middle ground Sadly yes. Like many people on that thread concluded: The best "middle ground" thing you can do is pay a premium to buy your cables from reputable manufacturers.

Buying my cables from decent manufacturers does not tell me what specific version of USB a cable purports to support, what voltage of USB-PD it can transmit, whether or not it can do Thunderbolt or DisplayPort, or a dozen other random capabilities inherent in these cables.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#68

Post by registeredcorn »

nerdsniper wrote: post #25

Something that keeps needing to be pointed out every thread this stuff appears on: What these tools report are not functionally different from just believing "what's on the packaging", despite the misleading marketing claims. These tools read a chip called an "eMarker". These eMarkers are programmed to say whatever the manufacturer wants them to say - there's no requirement that the information be based in reality. P…

For people who cannot, or do not want to spend fantastic amounts of money on cable testers, can you name any reliable cable brands that, generally or strictly, sell cables which match their marketing material?

I don't need absolute perfection, but I hate the idea of buying an expensive cable, and being lied to about how good the performance is. I don't mind paying more for quality, but its hard for me to really articulate any difference between two USB cables, except by maybe their length, and how "sturdy" one might feel compared to the other.

It wouldn't do a lot to solve the issue of various low quality cables I already own, but I wouldn't mind throwing money at a cable company that doesn't lie to its customers.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#69

Post by traceroute66 »

bestouff wrote: post #60
traceroute66 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> verify what's actually in the cable (not blindly trusting the marker) the latter is sufficient But as was repeated 101 times on that thread .... All that those cheap $40 boxes are doing IS reading the marker. Sadly you are kidding yourself if you think a $40 box off Amazon is doing any sort of "verification". Let alone in any sort of calibrated, reproducible sense free of random unknown variables.

Then I am kidding myself, because I'm convinced it does a lot more.

> Then I am kidding myself, because I'm convinced it does a lot more.

Good luck spotting those counterfeit / phony markers with your $40 toy.

Just one of many examples of basic things your $40 toy won't tell you.

Re: WhatCable: Know what your USB-C cable can do

#70

Post by traceroute66 »

stouset wrote: post #67
traceroute66 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you suggesting there is no middle ground Sadly yes. Like many people on that thread concluded: The best "middle ground" thing you can do is pay a premium to buy your cables from reputable manufacturers.

Buying my cables from decent manufacturers does not tell me what specific version of USB a cable purports to support, what voltage of USB-PD it can transmit, whether or not it can do Thunderbolt or DisplayPort, or a dozen other random capabilities inherent in these cables.

> Buying my cables from decent manufacturers does not tell me what specific version of USB a cable purports to support

A $40 toy won't tell you if the marker chips it has just read are fake / counterfeit.

You need the expensive kit for that.

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