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The Indo-European Family Tree

djbinder.com

71–80 of 103 posts

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#71

Interesting, northern India and southern Sri Lanka ended up with Indo-European languages. However, southern Indian and northern Sri Lanka ended up speaking a completely different language family. I wonder how that happened.

the story of how the sinhalese got there is told in the Mahavamsa a Buddhist pali take that recounts the story of prince Vijaya fleeing his kingdom in mainland India and arriving in sri lanka.

The northern folks, the tamils are there because sri lanka used to be physically connected to Tamil nadu in recent history, like just a few centuries ago

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#72
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many historical events of Indo-European speakers invading India from the north, like Darius the Great, Alexander the Great, the Mughals. AIT refers to a theory from an earlier time period but rejecting it does not rule out subsequent Indo-European conquests of the region which surely contributed to the spread of Indo-European culture and language southward.

But the advent of Indo-European languages in Northern India (let alone Southern Sri Lanka) has nothing to do with Alexander or the Mughals. The Aryan Invasion Theory was propagated by the British to justify their colonial brutality, and no self-respecting historian will now call the gradual Aryan migration an invasion. The only people who still do are usually trying to achieve some political aims, usually imperial ap…

Why are you being down voted... By the time alexander showed up India had spoken an indo European language for thousands of years.

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#73
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain Sri Lanka which is past South India... Edit: The actual answer is North/Eastern Indians speaking an IE variant immigrated to Sri Lanka in the 5th/6th centuries and became the dominant language there since (Sinhala)

Could it be that Sri lanka is an island

Sri Lanka only became an island like 500 years ago. It was a storm in 1480 that disconnected the passable land bridge that once connected it to mainland India.

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#74

I can image the moment Sir William Jones realized Sanskrit and Latin had a common origin. "Wait a minute...these can't all be coincidences." It's pretty mid-blowing.

I'm learning Spanish now after studying French and while I'm not fluent at all in Hindi or Marathi which I sometimes heard my family speaking growing up, the cognates are fascinating. The numbers are the most obvious. But even words like 'tu' (you) are the same in all the languages. Same with English and me as the first person.

Not to mention the verbs. Truly wild stuff to think no one noticed.

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#75
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughters are growing up bilingual in Persian and English. Totally fascinating to find the cognates; many are surprisingly close still (daughter/dokhtar, star/setare, cow/gav). It’s fun feeling like I could communicate basic ideas to a proto Indo European speaker based on those really distant cognates.

It gets complicated by the preponderance of French loan words, although they tend to be for newer concepts such as car, elevator, etc. There do also seem to be some genuine coincidences, such as sock it/saket, both being a somewhat forceful way to tell someone to be quiet. But yes, Persian people and culture in particular has fascinated me due to the ancient, but not prehistoric, traces of a shared identity with Euro…

The romance languages are closer to the indo Iranian ones than the Germanic languages from what I understand.

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#76

Kinda funny that Bavarian is more distant from 'High German' than Yiddish :D (not exactly wrong though, Yiddish is easier to understand for any non-Bavarian than hardcore Bavarian). There's at least a dozen local German dialects missing which are just as 'weird' as Bavarian though (PS: ok, all the main dialects spoken in the northern parts of Germany seem to be there, just in their own 'heritage node'), I guess Bavar…

« earned its own spot »

Linguistically, this chart doesn't have much value. Not sure what criteria were used for inclusion of this or that item, perhaps just presence in some ISO standard. “German” per se doesn't mean much, so-called “high-German” („hochdeutsch“, meaning „oberdeutsch“ in opposition to „niederdeutsch“), the language that you and I speak, is an artificial synthesis and administrative compromise on written variations that is not organically rooted in dialectical evolution and historically has been imposed by schooling (which has led to the eradication of the Northern dialects, „platt“, which are derived from old Saxon and thus are related to English), so it is questionable what its meaning should be in this chart.

Yiddish is a colonial sociolect and somewhat marginal to the evolution, so again, not clear why it was included. IIRC, Koestler wrote in “The Thirteenth Tribe” (where he rejects the mainstream hypothesis of the origin and nature of Eastern Jewry) that Yiddish is based on the South-Eastern variants, not on the South-Western variants.

Looking at the Latin languages, similar inadequacies can be seen. Very superficial and misleading, all in all.

Maybe this chart is meant more to showcase CSS and web graphics than linguistics.

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#78

4000 BC? I don't buy it: if you look at how little Greek changed over the last 3500 years and compared to how different it is to other languages this doesn't sit right

Quick question for you - did the Proto-Indo-European culture spread out further than, or lesser than, the Greek culture?

Because that difference in expansion, distance, and interaction with other cultures might explain the differences you're incredulous about.

Given Punjabi and Irish Gaelic are both descended from PIE, as is _Greek_ I'm going to say that 4K is plenty. The fact that Greek didn't change so much after Mycenean Greek was first attested in 2K BC doesn't say as much about PIE as it does about the Greeks deciding they liked where they were.

Also, _how_ different is Greek to other languages? Given it's a PIE language also.

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#79

4000 BC? I don't buy it: if you look at how little Greek changed over the last 3500 years and compared to how different it is to other languages this doesn't sit right

Massive controversy in historical linguistics, singularity2001 on hacker News doesn't buy the age of proto-Indo-European

Re: The Indo-European Family Tree

#80
The "lord's prayer" in Vedic sounds very out of place due to the choices of inflected forms and some stems even reminiscent of classical Sanskrit.

Without going into depth of that, here's something actually more inspiring (actual excerpt from Rig Veda).

    tvā́m ugrám ávase carṣaṇīsáhaṃ rā́jan devéṣu hūmahe

    víśvā sú no vithurā́ pibdanā́ vaso amítrān suṣáhān kr̥dhi
> We call for help, the fierce, ruler of clans of men, king of Gods (Indra)

> All of us that is weak, strengthen it. Make the enemies easy to subdue

(The acute accent is an udatta - high pitch, vedic is a pitch accented language. I would expect IAST with accents, not whatever randomly capitalised things it threw at me).

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