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Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

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271–280 of 496 posts

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world /is/ peaceful right now... relatively that is. Not to say there isn't war, but they're small wars with a million deaths being a big one. More people died in Second World War[1] than in all wars since then combined. If not for the Russian Civil War and WW2, the same would probably true for the Great War. War is terrible, but the fraction of people who died in wars the last 75 years is substantially smaller t…

Now I know I'm the big bad military guy saying this, but just give it a chance. Do you think that maybe the reluctance to engage in large wars over the last 75 years is a benefit of the nuclear deterrent rather than political ideologies, or world view narratives, or hegemons? Just kind of noticing that the 75 year figure you put out there kind of dovetails nicely with the existence of the nuclear deterrent in multipl…

As long as it works... and maybe one day it will no longer work and then at least we can point back to discussions such as these and say 'you were right, up to a point'.

The problem with weapons is that usually weapons end up being used. And with the US now no longer working against proliferation the risks are going up.

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#272

The US wields incredible negotiating power and hegemony because the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. Like the British pound and the Dutch guilder before it, if that loses reserve currency status it will be harder to borrow on favorable terms, which would affect the entire US economy. This is a big step in that perhaps starting to happen over the next few decades.

The yuan will never become a reserve currency as long as China maintain tight currency controls around importing and exporting it. It's very difficult to (legally) send CNY out or China. The euro is in a much better position to be adopted as an alternative, but its share of global reserves has been flat at around 20% for years. https://data.imf.org/en/news/imf%20data%20brief%20march%2027

what’s stopping China from dropping currency controls in a ab afternoon? It’s not like this is some force of nature.

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#273

The US wields incredible negotiating power and hegemony because the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. Like the British pound and the Dutch guilder before it, if that loses reserve currency status it will be harder to borrow on favorable terms, which would affect the entire US economy. This is a big step in that perhaps starting to happen over the next few decades.

[dead]

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#274

An interesting move. Something that drives me crazy when interacting with China, is that I can only use American payment methods to make a payment from Europe to China. I pay a fee and the merchant pays a fee both to the US. It just sounds broken. I hope this is a step in eventually resolving this.

You did not make an effort to switch and resorted to the easiest payment method.

Unionpay for example, allows clearing directly in Chinese Yuan and most Chinese native merchants accept them.

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#275
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The yuan will never become a reserve currency as long as China maintain tight currency controls around importing and exporting it. It's very difficult to (legally) send CNY out or China. The euro is in a much better position to be adopted as an alternative, but its share of global reserves has been flat at around 20% for years. https://data.imf.org/en/news/imf%20data%20brief%20march%2027

what’s stopping China from dropping currency controls in a ab afternoon? It’s not like this is some force of nature.

It's like 6-7 CNY to USD right now. If that goes to 1 or 2 (if the CNY rises dramatically in price wrt the USD), then everything imported from China to the US explodes in price. Explosion in price, the imports reduce dramatically. So Chinese exports, which comprise like a quarter of their GDP, implode.

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's goal is weakening the dollar, I don't think they are after reserved currency status. In any case, moving from USD -> Yuan would pose the same risk as people may perceive with USD today. Having a single currency controlled by one nation is too risky.

China doesn’t broadly want a weaker dollar, at least not against the yuan. Until very recently they actively worked to strengthen the dollar in the pair. Chinese currency policy is broadly about controlling their domestic population not about foreign policy. Between keeping their domestic manufacturing industry going and keeping their more affluent populations power in check you’ll find most of the motivation for wha…

"weakening" and "strengthening" often confuses lay peeps really hard on this subject, as a plain source of confusion. "cheaper" and "more expensive" are frankly better words

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#277

The US wields incredible negotiating power and hegemony because the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. Like the British pound and the Dutch guilder before it, if that loses reserve currency status it will be harder to borrow on favorable terms, which would affect the entire US economy. This is a big step in that perhaps starting to happen over the next few decades.

One consequence of the transition to renewable energy and electrified transport, is that oil imports will start to decline. And the dollar is of course the currency of choice for that. The US economy and other countries that export fossil fuels will feel the impact over the next decade or so. The energy transition might go a lot quicker than people seem to expect. Currently about 20% of global car sales is electric.…

There's a lot of rosy or false assumptions here.

For example, if every road vehicle became an EV tomorrow, global oil demand would drop from 100M barrels per day ("Mbpd") to... ~60M. And that assumes EV replacements for things we don't have EV replacements for yet, like long haul trucking. We also have avgas, for which there's no replacement, and global shipping.

But beyond fuel there's a significant range of non-fuel usages (eg industrial, plastics, construction).

There's another factor here too and that is that the oil economy props up the weapons economy. Nobody goes to war over a solar panel [1]. That sounds like a good thing (and it is) but you have to realize there are forces who like that oil drives war became war is a huge profit opportunity.

[1]: https://www.theenergymix.com/no-one-goes-to-war-over-a-solar...

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#278

The US wields incredible negotiating power and hegemony because the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. Like the British pound and the Dutch guilder before it, if that loses reserve currency status it will be harder to borrow on favorable terms, which would affect the entire US economy. This is a big step in that perhaps starting to happen over the next few decades.

One consequence of the transition to renewable energy and electrified transport, is that oil imports will start to decline. And the dollar is of course the currency of choice for that. The US economy and other countries that export fossil fuels will feel the impact over the next decade or so. The energy transition might go a lot quicker than people seem to expect. Currently about 20% of global car sales is electric.…

> One consequence of the transition to renewable energy and electrified transport, is that oil imports will start to decline

Unless Jevons Paradox. Cheaper energy might mean more oil use. 1) Never underestimate the world's hunger for energy; renewables and electrification have huge disadvantages (you can't get close to the energy density of gas/diesel). 2) Oil is used for most products. 3) Even if its use declined, that would raise the price without making it less important.

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has some internal documents that address the Thucydides Trap with a Chinese idiom, "There are no just wars in the Spring and Autumn Period."

Which of I understand the Wikipedia article correctly would mean it's a euphemism for "there are no just wars"?

Chinese idioms can be notoriously difficult to interpret. From what I've seen, they're often an abbreviation of some passage from a famous text. The listener is expected to know the rest of that text and all the major commentaries that go with it.

I absolutely do not have a solid grasp of the full works of Mencius and I have fairly anemic knowledge of the derivative works but I'm fairly sure it's not just a simple euphemism.

My read of the idiom is that Chinese political philosophers claim that the basis of Western political philosophy is the balance of power between hegemons and the basis of Chinese political philosophy is the concept of the righteous rule/mandate of heaven.

His implication seems to be that Western nations are held together primarily by force whereas the CPC primarily maintains power by serving the people.

Re: Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe

#280

The US wields incredible negotiating power and hegemony because the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. Like the British pound and the Dutch guilder before it, if that loses reserve currency status it will be harder to borrow on favorable terms, which would affect the entire US economy. This is a big step in that perhaps starting to happen over the next few decades.

Being the reserve currency means the rest of the world accumulates your liabilities as their savings, i.e. it means you are the world's largest debtor, and the world's largest net importer. That is how the rest of the world accumulates your currency - because they sell more to you than they buy from you, allowing them to accumulate your fiat.

So this "reserve currency" status is a great burden to US industry, which is why China has created a web of laws that effectively make it illegal to be a reserve currency. The entire east asian bloc has industrialized based on an export led growth model -- that is, exporting more than they import, and thus being accumulators of other nation's currencies. It's not that they need to accumulate dollars, they just need to accumulate some other country's currency, otherwise it's mathematically impossible to run a trade surplus.

A lot of people don't understand this distinction between positive and negative -- e.g. accumulating the currency of other nations and other nations accumulating your currency. These people hold to what I call the fallacy of "the equality of all good things". These are the same people that argue for a "strong dollar" and also "strong exports", when actually these are opposites. I think of this as a form of tribalism, where the analysis is limited to "our guy good, their guy bad. X good, Y bad".

Such people are resistant to trade offs, e.g. you get the advantage of cheap consumer goods by being a net importer, but you have the disadvantage of losing jobs and industries to those nations that are willing to have expensive consumer goods for their populations in order to export more and import less.

In any case, continuing with lists of fallacies, we can say that America having a "strong economy" has little to do with its reserve currency status. Rather, it needs 1) a large bond market 2) investor rights protections 3) a legal framework allowing foreign capital inflows and outflows, with little friction. 4) A relatively stable currency.

To see how important this is, take the example of Russia, which decided that it will sell its oil to India by accumulating rupees. That's great, there was much celebrating "multipolarity" but the fact of the matter is the Rupee has lost over 20% of its value (in dollar terms) since Russia started accumulating it, and India has laws blocking Russia from selling its rupee holdings for other currencies, it can only use those Rupees to purchase Indian goods and take them back to Russia. So now Russia has tons of rupees it can't use except to buy Indian goods, and has started requiring India to pay with Quatari Riyal, as Quatar as more investor friendly laws. Also, there is not that much you can buy with Riyal, when you have two hundred billion dollars of value a year you want to park in some foreign jurisdiction, Quatar just can't absorb that. China isn't willing to accept it. India will accept it but not let you take it out. Where are you gonna put it?

So we see, we have already left the world of "America declining! The Dollar is collapsing!", because like it or not, even though America has tarnished its reputation of respecting investor rights, it's still miles ahead of any alternative when you need to park overseas earnings.

China blocks foreign capital inflows. Europe suffers from all the problems that the US does and even moreso as they are now openly seizing foreign ships and the bank accounts of private citizens - for example freezing bank accounts of people with Russian sounding last names - and Europe has even more barriers to moving money in and out.

So in which jurisdiction will you park your overseas earnings if not the US?

There is no alternative. No alternative is even beginning to appear over the horizon.

While I am holding forth on all these fallacies, another one is what I call the "balloon theory" of trust. This is the assumption that because the US, which used to be a high trust, investor-rights respecting nation, but has begun losing those investor rights credentials after seizing the sovereign assets of Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela, Syria, as well as other official enemies - that because of this, some other nation must magically arise that will have that reputation for respecting foreign investor rights. E.g. that trust is a balloon, and if you squeeze one part of it, another must by necessity expand. This also comes from tribalism, e.g. the view that if your enemies suffer that you must benefit. But trust isn't like that, it could just be that as the US begins to look less attractive, then no other nation will take its place, and this will create real problems for the export-led growth economies in Asia, as they need some nation whose currency they can accumulate in order to run the trade surpluses needed for them to maintain domestic employment.

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