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Thinking the unthinkable

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Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#181

Post by philwelch »

ojbyrne wrote: post #132
philwelch wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The view of Second Amendment advocates is that civilian access to firearms is a fundamental civil right that protects the people from their government. This makes it a fundamentally different question than the standard utilitarian arguments one could come up with. It's easy to imagine ways of making people safer by eliminating their civil rights. But we choose to maintain these civil rights despite the costs.

And the fourth amendment says that protection against unreasonable search and seizure is also a fundamental right that protects the people from their government. But that was gone in a flash.

No, it's not. You're being hyperbolic.

In any case, I think you and I would agree that it's worthwhile to resist violations of the fourth amendment even if you could make a case that they would save lives. I'm just suggesting we apply the same standard to other civil rights. American liberals are a little two-faced about this kind of thing.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#182

Post by [deleted] »

ojbyrne wrote: post #132
philwelch wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The view of Second Amendment advocates is that civilian access to firearms is a fundamental civil right that protects the people from their government. This makes it a fundamentally different question than the standard utilitarian arguments one could come up with. It's easy to imagine ways of making people safer by eliminating their civil rights. But we choose to maintain these civil rights despite the costs.

And the fourth amendment says that protection against unreasonable search and seizure is also a fundamental right that protects the people from their government. But that was gone in a flash.

[deleted]

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#183

Post by bjm1 »

After reading the story, one big glaring question. Where is the father? He's not around. Boys need fathers. If you want to screw up a child, take away the father.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#184

Post by leviathant »

konstruktor wrote: post #165
unimpressive wrote: post #99

> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…

If a sudden moment of clarity would be a repeatable cure for mental illness, we would not need mental healthcare. Please read up on confirmation bias.

Agreed. I'm a little taken aback by the parent post's "I was like that, but fixed myself with Linkin Park" attitude. It came off to me as rather dismissive, although I don't believe that was the intention at all.

My mother-in-law has bipolar, and is in the hospital pretty much every spring. She has the benefit of being in Australia, where the health care system is leaps and bounds better than what we have in America, at least. I also have a friend who's worked in the mental ward of two hospitals.

Sure, when you're young, it's fun to go down the DSM and think about how some of the symptoms of schizoid personality disorder feel like they kind of apply to you, and there are so many self-diagnosed aspies on the internet, but this leads to anecdotal trivialization of serious mental illness.

Go volunteer in your local mental ward. Spend a few long months with diagnosed, treated (as well as they can be) mentally ill people. It'll change your perspective on so many things, from tragedies like this to views on trends in modern humor.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#185

Post by illuminate »

konstruktor wrote: post #165
unimpressive wrote: post #99

> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…

If a sudden moment of clarity would be a repeatable cure for mental illness, we would not need mental healthcare. Please read up on confirmation bias.

Right. Curing "being an asshole" is not curing mental illness.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#186

Post by unimpressive »

konstruktor wrote: post #165
unimpressive wrote: post #99

> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…

If a sudden moment of clarity would be a repeatable cure for mental illness, we would not need mental healthcare. Please read up on confirmation bias.

I think it's possible there are some people who just need to "cut their shit" so to speak. But to try and say that's applicable to the majority of cases, on an anecdote, would be just plain irresponsible. I think it's pretty likely that I just matured the way most kids do, by growing up physically, which let me see that what I was doing wasn't alright.

I remember reading portions of a book on autism. (And before you ask, that was a real diagnosis from a real mental health professional.) Which had tons of statistics about people with autistic traits/on the spectrum. And I really wish I could source this, but the first chapter or such looked at what the chances of integration into society were without treatment. I think the number was either 1% or 10%. Either way the odds were stacked against you.

And so the thing that jumped out at me when I read that, was wondering what the difference is between someone who integrates, and someone who ends up in the institute. (I'm fairly sure the book was only covering HFA or Asperger's.) And the answer is: I've got no idea. "Wake up one day and 'cure yourself'." as the parent notes, probably isn't a repeatable strategy.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#187

Post by dreamdu5t »

Sorry, but what is "society" supposed to do exactly? Last time I checked, mental health professionals don't know how to cure or fix kids like this. What exactly does it mean to say we don't have enough mental healthcare? This article did nothing to help me understand that.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#188

Post by commanda »

jetti wrote: post #15

I was reading this and it made me sad. Not because of the obvious content but because of the diagnosis being thrown around and how when reading them my immediate thought was "I hope it isn't a personality disorder". I say this knowing full well that many insurance companies will NOT cover anything related to personality disorders because they feel that they aren't curable. I still remember when I called my insurance…

My heart really goes out to you. Can you imagine replacing "autism" with "type 1 diabetes" in your story and any health insurance company acting that way? Unthinkable. I hope our culture gets to the point where it stops regarding some illnesses as unworthy of care.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#189

Post by commanda »

adrianhoward wrote: post #92

I always get rather nervous when I see posts like this. Things like this obviously happen. However - statistically - people with mental illness are no more likely to commit violence than anybody else. See http://psychcentral.com/archives/violence.htm for example. When people with mental illness are violent it's usually for the same reason everybody else is. It's usually aimed at family when it does occur - not the wo…

The author clearly fears for her safety and her other children's safety due to her 13-year-old's violent behavior. Her story isn't making blanket claims about all mental illnesses, only about her son's particular violent condition.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#190

Post by CoryG89 »

illuminate wrote: post #185
konstruktor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a sudden moment of clarity would be a repeatable cure for mental illness, we would not need mental healthcare. Please read up on confirmation bias.

Right. Curing "being an asshole" is not curing mental illness.

You don't think it is at all possible that the kid from the story, while also having a serious mental illness, could also be cured of 'being an asshole', just like the commentator here?
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