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Thinking the unthinkable

anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com

171–180 of 462 posts

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#171

> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…

If a sudden moment of clarity would be a repeatable cure for mental illness, we would not need mental healthcare. Please read up on confirmation bias.

It's more basic than that. You can't get someone to improve their own situation in a sustainable way if they don't want to put in the work. I think most people when confronted with a hard choice would like to pick the choice that will make them healthier in the long run.

I was confronted with facing my own ADHD a few years ago, which helped me stop making choices that were more comfortable in the moment but had suboptimal long term consequences. An example would be impulsively buying something on credit to make myself feel better, one of many little things I did to dig myself into a financial hole and, if I remember correctly, a very common ADHD thing to do. By opening my mind to the possibility that I had to face my issues, it opened the door to slowly chipping away at the core issue.

One thing to keep in mind is that mental health is a hard thing to work on. It takes several weeks in the best of cases just to figure out what's going on inside your head when working with a good mental health professional, and that's assuming your trying to get better and don't have ant major hang ups about being treated. Ask a psychologist at Kaiser Permanente, an HMO based here in California, how many sessions they can spend with most mental health patients. It's a very low number, something like 6 or 8 sessions.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#172
Here are some numbers from Gloucestershire, a rural county in England.

In a population of about 800,000 people there are about 4,000 people on the books of specialist MH treatment services at any time.

There are about 2,000 people with a diagnosis of psychotic illness (eg, schizophrenia). There are about 3,000 people with a diagnosis of mood disorder (eg, depression).

There are about 60 beds for 'adults of working age'[1] with a MH problem. Most treatment is successfully provided in the community by community and home treatment teams. Staff visit people in their homes daily, weekly, fortnightly, monthly, whatever. Treatment is not just medical and drugs, it involves therapy, but it also involves occupational stuff. (Occupational stuff does not just mean 'work' (although that's important and there are specialist teams focussed on 'place and train' return to work) but includes meaningful social activity, education, exercise, family and friend networks, etc.)

There are no beds in county for children. Children with a need for a psychiatric in-patient stay are sent out of county. (Apart from a short time each year when adult drug and alcohol re-hab is used for children.)

There are a small number of beds in a low-secure forensic unit.

There is an estimated 30,000 (thirty thousand) (high end) or 22,000 (twenty two thousand) (low end) people with a probable diagnosis of one of the personality disorders.

PD is a difficult diagnosis. It used to be a diagnosis of exclusion. Someone with a diagnosis of PD would not be committed to MH hospital, because PD was thought to be not treatable. PD is no longer a diagnosis of exclusion. Someone with a diagnosis can be committed to a MH hospital. But they are much more likely to find themselves involved in the criminal justice system.

Gloucestershire has had a well known incident where someone with a mental illness has killed - (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1182902.stm) (etc).

The serial killers Fred and Rosemary West lived in Gloucestershire. They killed maybe 13 people. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West)

We hear a great deal about these significant murders. We hear very little about the every day murders - the murders by the sane. Very many children are raped or abused or murdered by their sane parents; very many people are murdered by their sane spouses; very many sane people commit acts of violence every day. We don't hear too much about the number of ill people killing themselves. (UK: about 1000 murders a year, about 4000 suicides per year.)

People with a mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime than to be the perpetrators of violent crime.

The US does have serious problem with terrible care for people with mental illness. Do you really need a spree killing to start that discussion? Do you walk past the homeless and think it's okay so long as they're not killing anyone?

[1] Historically services have been split between "old people"; "adults of working age"; "children and adolescents"; and "people with an IQ < X". There are problems with these arbitrary divisions, and modern services are moving away from them.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#173
Thank you for sharing your story. I agree with many of the points you made. But I have some questions. Knowing what you know about yours sons condition, would you ever consider taking him out and teaching him to shoot a gun? You said you lock up all the sharp objects around the house, but do you leave out your pistols and semi-automatic guns?

We definitely need to do and learn more about mental illness. But in the case of Adam Lanza, his mother shouldn't have owned guns and should have never been able to purchase one with a child that's unstable and has a history/record.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#174
post #79

I feel for the parent who has written the article, and whereas I agree we must do more to address the needs of kids with mental illness, I disagree with the stated premise of the article, that it's easy to talk about guns. It's actually not easy to talk about guns in this country, which has led to a lack of any serious gun control regulation. It borders on insanity when we look at the type of weaponry we allow our ci…

It's strange to watch the debates around gun control unfold in USA time and again. Here in Australia we did the same thing after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, one of the deadliest spree shootings in world history. After that, the government basically outlawed semi-automatic weapons and did a compulsory buyback.

In the 12 years since we've only had one incident. In 2002, a member of a sport shooting club (one of the few categories of people allowed to own handguns) opened fire in a Monash classroom. He killed two people and wounded five others, but since he could only manage to acquire handguns he had to switch weapons and was tackled to the ground. No doubt things would have been a lot worse if he'd had access to something with a larger magazine. We tightened laws on handguns after that as well.

I find myself surprised that an otherwise relatively pragmatic people get so blind to the consequences of readily available firearms. I don't have any ideological opposition to guns - in fact, I quite like them - but if someone told me that yoga was involved in every killing spree in the last decade it would be pretty silly not to take a serious look at whether ready access to yoga is worth the cost.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#176
post #107

> Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. There are crazy people in every country on earth, many (most) of which have worse "health care" systems than the US; yet only in the US do kids shoot other kids with automatic weapons. I very much doubt it has anything to do with mental health (nowhere else in the world are young children medicated for being kids to such…

Actually I never understood what is the true problem kids/people in the US have? Really what is it?

There are nations on this earth where people consider themselves fortunate if they can just eat 2-3 times a day. Probably send their kids to their school(Where education is just for names'sake), have some clothes to wear, not fall ill and live with minimal dignity.

The situation is far better in US, people is US probably don't even have an idea how bad things are for people outside. Most US citizens aren't even remotely likely to face such situations.

I guess at the end its too much luxury, and law of diminishing utility kicking in.

I think people in US should face some real hardships in their lives, what people else where face. May be when they see for themselves how fortunate they were with what they had before. They will learn the importance of things the hard way.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#177
post #3

This is incredibly important. Every time I talk to people from outside of the country about the US, the first thing that comes up is the difficulty of obtaining proper healthcare.

Is there any evidence that healthcare would help with this situation?

Just relating it back to the article, seeing that the mother changed jobs in order to obtain healthcare and fund the care of her child scared me. Not everybody is in the position of being able to obtain such a job, and forcing a parent to fund emergency room trips without insurance could be preventing access to adequate treatment.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#178
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re handwriting: If you are still into improving your handwriting, buy yourself a fountain pen. It makes it a lot of fun to experiment with new characters and drastically alter your handwriting. I've always had meh handwriting. Not horrible, but not pretty either. I've been slowly converting my scratchy characters over to smoother, more flowy characters with embelleshments, since fountain pens make it so easy to play.…

Hand writing is a big thing here in India. And generally many super intelligent kids lose out to mug pots because of hand writing. Coming to my case, I consider any one who boasts about great hand writing a loser. The moment I stopped writing exams I started giving a damn about hand writing. Hand writing improvement initiatives were the biggest things I hated in school. It was a exercise in futility. Looking back I f…

Interesting. Here in the States (at least, where I grew up), handwriting is a real mixed bag.

When you are learning how to write as a small child, it's a big deal to write clearly (for obvious reason). Then you are forced to learn cursive, and its a big deal to write cursive clearly.

Then it doesn't matter anymore. Literally everyone stops caring as long as it is legible. It's a weird system. While you are learning to read and write, there is an emphasis on penmanship. But once you are literate...no one cares anymore. Most people (like myself) degenerate back to chicken scratch. Especially as typing became more prevalent. I would hazard a guess that children in the States have even worse handwriting nowadays.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The view of Second Amendment advocates is that civilian access to firearms is a fundamental civil right that protects the people from their government. This makes it a fundamentally different question than the standard utilitarian arguments one could come up with. It's easy to imagine ways of making people safer by eliminating their civil rights. But we choose to maintain these civil rights despite the costs.

The Supreme Court's recent decision in *District of Columbia v Heller" which found that the 2nd Amendment does give a fundamental right to own firearms might not be as expansive as you think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#... There is probably a lot of room in between what the courts would allow as far as limiting just what type of firearms one can keep in their home for lawful purposes…

Indeed. Which is why fully automatic assault rifles have been illegal for the better part of a century. (They were outlawed during Prohibition due to the notoriety of the Thompson submachine gun.)

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#180
post #107

> Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. There are crazy people in every country on earth, many (most) of which have worse "health care" systems than the US; yet only in the US do kids shoot other kids with automatic weapons. I very much doubt it has anything to do with mental health (nowhere else in the world are young children medicated for being kids to such…

When you comment on something as serious as this you should have your facts straight. Automatic weapons are highly regulated in the US, and no automatic weapon has ever been used in a school shooting to my knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjfzG4mpyU

If you watch that video, you will understand how scary the situation is. If someone could easily get hold of such things, I'm not sure how they react on a moment of anger...

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