Am I wrong or are these evaluations, while interesting, not really meaningful for anyone doing serious development work? I'm asking because I personally only use AI with specific and detailed instructions, building my projects piece-by-piece. I mostly don't look at the low level code and some of it I don't understand as much as I'd like, but I very much give much more technical instructions than a simple, two sentenc…
As someone who's done web development for 20+ years, I find the model personalities pretty dang fascinating, especially how they develop (and evolve) design sensibilities. I'm interested to know how the classic AI "purple preference" emerged (organically?) and if the beige wave came out of specific training efforts to combat it? To your point on development work (the code itself), I was talking to some friends on the…
Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
21–30 of 105 posts
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#22Building ad-hoc evals is trivial these days. And you can place an LLM judge in front to disambiguate between output. e.g. I have Frigate gating a video feed so that an LLM can watch our home cameras and the labeling task takes a few minutes and then the evals run at fairly low cost https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/images/4/4e/Screenshot_-_Eva... This means that generic benchmarks and evals are sort of passé. There's n…
I highly doubt that you have solved it. Writing proper evals and benchmarks for real-world scenarios is far from trivial.
Benchmarking an agent essentially means freezing, at the very minimum:
- the model
- the model's configuration (e.g. effort, permissions, provider)
- the dataset (e.g. a git repository at a specific sha)
- the code running the agent itself (you can build your own harness, trivial, but you still need to ship it as a single executable, froze in time. benchmarking against closed source runtime like claude code is quite useless, they change too frequently and in ways you cannot directly inspect).
- the tools at agent's disposal. Even a slightly different implementation of tool X (e.g. grep or readfile or sed) has an impact. In general this implies also freezing a very specific container image. In my personal benchmarks I provide a specific list of tools that come with the executable, there's no possibility of interacting with the outside world besides the provided apis, the agent bundles its own tools.
And even then: there's significant noise coming from the LLM providers themselves which noticeably change the models behaviour, I don't know whether this is because they optimize some settings or change the inference over time, etc.
And, last but not least, the output of LLMs is non deterministic.
Also, the LLM as judge presents essentially the same non-deterministic problems, has to be benchmarked itself thoroughly, and writing quality rubrics or "golden answers/outputs" is just difficult. One of the metrics I consistently try to emphasize is to avoid the "shotgun vomit dump" of information. So answers that get right to the point in plain terms avoiding dumps of information filled of jargon on top of the user are rated differently.
In short: its far from trivial to benchmark models on real-world agentic work taken from your personal or professional projects.
And even creating the test cases themselves is hard. No: you cannot take the output of some "sota" and use it as gold standard. This is a very crap approach. It's the sloppiest solution to the problem, in the very sense of slop: plausible, average, lacking any creativity or out of the box thinking, the things that make the real difference in complex software development.
The very point of creating these benchmarks is to find which configuration/model/tools/harness (skills/mcps/documentation/agents.md, etc) works better.
And it only works if you create these benchmarks yourself from genuinely difficult non-trivial work and find a solution that is better by most metrics implementation-wise, albeit you could settle on the implementation solving a series of cases and edge cases.
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also kind of pointless. Why does a coffee shop need a website anyway? Nobody is saying, "man I would love to go to this coffee shop but I can't find their website". If all you want is "opening hours, the address, a short menu and a photo" there are easier and cheaper ways to do that.
> Nobody is saying, "man I would love to go to this coffee shop but I can't find their website". Me, I'm saying that, and I've skipped going to coffee shops and restaurants because they don't have a website, just a fucking Facebook page . I don't use Meta products and can't see their page if I'm not logged into an account I don't have, so I do what the business owner intended: I go fuck myself and get coffee somewher…
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#24> Build a one-page site for a neighbourhood coffee shop: opening hours, the address, a short menu and a photo. Nothing on it changes unless I edit it myself. If that's the entire prompt, it's quite depressing how much alike these all look. I appreciate some of the details from the Opus 5 version, but I can't help but strongly feel the AI vibes emanating from that design.
Without more knowledge about the technical aspect, it could be a good thing that they're all so similar. If you tell humans to go from their kitchen to their bedroom, they all stand up and walk the same way. Nobody decides to crab walk. Maybe you'd have to cripple the model in some way to do that. On the other hand, if you want something different with LLMs, all it takes is a few more words of creative flair in the p…
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#25Am I wrong or are these evaluations, while interesting, not really meaningful for anyone doing serious development work? I'm asking because I personally only use AI with specific and detailed instructions, building my projects piece-by-piece. I mostly don't look at the low level code and some of it I don't understand as much as I'd like, but I very much give much more technical instructions than a simple, two sentenc…
Yes, the most valuable benchmarks and evaluations you can write are those that resemble your work.
The evaluations are extremely hard to write and test.
And yes, virtually all benchmarks are E2E one shots, they do not reflect multi turn processes or how most people interact with LLMs.
Which is why every Opus after 4.6 looks better on benchmarks, but is hard to work with interactively.
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody is saying, "man I would love to go to this coffee shop but I can't find their website". Me, I'm saying that, and I've skipped going to coffee shops and restaurants because they don't have a website, just a fucking Facebook page . I don't use Meta products and can't see their page if I'm not logged into an account I don't have, so I do what the business owner intended: I go fuck myself and get coffee somewher…
But... why do you want to look up a coffee shop online before going there? Honestly have never heard anyone say this in my life before
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#27Am I wrong or are these evaluations, while interesting, not really meaningful for anyone doing serious development work? I'm asking because I personally only use AI with specific and detailed instructions, building my projects piece-by-piece. I mostly don't look at the low level code and some of it I don't understand as much as I'd like, but I very much give much more technical instructions than a simple, two sentenc…
It's still a work in progress but preliminary results reveal that Sol is able to reproduce 70%-90% of Fable's performance. This is a very meaningful result for me because code review is what I use AI for.
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#28Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
But... why do you want to look up a coffee shop online before going there? Honestly have never heard anyone say this in my life before
To see the hours, get a sense of the menu. There are many matcha shops by me for instance and my wife likes to check the specials before choosing which one to go to.
Re: Choosing an AI model: one prompt, 11 models, different results
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without more knowledge about the technical aspect, it could be a good thing that they're all so similar. If you tell humans to go from their kitchen to their bedroom, they all stand up and walk the same way. Nobody decides to crab walk. Maybe you'd have to cripple the model in some way to do that. On the other hand, if you want something different with LLMs, all it takes is a few more words of creative flair in the p…
This is an interesting point. But even then everyone has their own style. Some might walk with a bit of a swagger, some with a limp, some might have to get in a wheelchair to go over. Would model temperature be another knob to turn beyond a more creative prompt?