Thinking the unthinkable • Hacker News Board

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#131

Post by antidoh » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 2:58 PM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #60

antidoh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't meant as a straw man, it was meant as a way to identify a boundary. The most restrictive regulation possible would be a total ban, and only a total and successful ban would prevent people from using guns in massacres. So "regulation" while well intentioned is practically meaningless. Those people would still be mentally ill, and outlawing guns or some lesser regulation would not have addressed the actual pr…

Again, total prevention is a straw man. No-one is claiming that total prevention is an achievable goal. (Massive) reduction is. I am a pilot. It is said the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations) are written in blood. We still have fatal accidents from time to time, but they have been reduced by an almost incredible amount, especially considering how much air travel has increased. Yeah, you could argue that the fundamen…

I'm not throwing up my hands and saying do nothing. I'm suggesting that we address the fundamentals, which in this case is mental illness.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#132

Post by ojbyrne » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 2:59 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #103

ojbyrne wrote: post #71

This is the standard NRA line. It's not about guns, its about mental illness. But in fact its about the intersection of easy access to guns and mental illness. It's terrifically hard to screen for mental illness. It's stupidly easy to restrict access to guns.

The view of Second Amendment advocates is that civilian access to firearms is a fundamental civil right that protects the people from their government. This makes it a fundamentally different question than the standard utilitarian arguments one could come up with. It's easy to imagine ways of making people safer by eliminating their civil rights. But we choose to maintain these civil rights despite the costs.

And the fourth amendment says that protection against unreasonable search and seizure is also a fundamental right that protects the people from their government. But that was gone in a flash.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#133

Post by bambax » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:02 PM UTC

edanm wrote: post #111

bambax wrote: post #107

> Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. There are crazy people in every country on earth, many (most) of which have worse "health care" systems than the US; yet only in the US do kids shoot other kids with automatic weapons. I very much doubt it has anything to do with mental health (nowhere else in the world are young children medicated for being kids to such…

"Also, if I had had a "soccer mom" that told me I couldn't wear a this or that color of trousers when I was 13 (13!!), I would have called her names, too." Just an fyi, many countries have different levels of school uniforms. When I studied in England, I was wearing a full school uniform - button shirt, tie, trouses, sweater, etc. This from the first day of school, basically. Here in Israel, some schools have a "scho…

I went to a boarding school in Ireland for a year, and they had a uniform -- but it was a uniform, not a "policy". There was one pair of trousers, one shirt and one pullover allowed, and they were provided by the school.

This was fine with me; it was a very clear rule with only one interpretation possible, and it was completely external to my relation with my parents or in fact authority in general. You had to wear a uniform, you wore a uniform. I was quite rebellious but I never had a problem with that.

My guess is the OP's kid resents arbitrary rules and the way they are enforced. At what point does "dark blue" cease to be dark? And why does this woman feel the need to enforce the school's rules? Why doesn't she let him see for himself what happens when you go to that school with a red pair of pants? Does she fear it will reflect poorly on her?

I feel everything is about her, not him, and that's why he's so upset.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#134

Post by brown9-2 » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:03 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #103

ojbyrne wrote: post #71

This is the standard NRA line. It's not about guns, its about mental illness. But in fact its about the intersection of easy access to guns and mental illness. It's terrifically hard to screen for mental illness. It's stupidly easy to restrict access to guns.

The view of Second Amendment advocates is that civilian access to firearms is a fundamental civil right that protects the people from their government. This makes it a fundamentally different question than the standard utilitarian arguments one could come up with. It's easy to imagine ways of making people safer by eliminating their civil rights. But we choose to maintain these civil rights despite the costs.

The Supreme Court's recent decision in *District of Columbia v Heller" which found that the 2nd Amendment does give a fundamental right to own firearms might not be as expansive as you think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#...

There is probably a lot of room in between what the courts would allow as far as limiting just what type of firearms one can keep in their home for lawful purposes (read: self-defense) and who can own them. A right to bear firearms does not necessarily mean a right to own fully-automatic assault rifles.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#135

Post by polyfractal » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:03 PM UTC

unimpressive wrote: post #99

> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…

Re handwriting:

If you are still into improving your handwriting, buy yourself a fountain pen. It makes it a lot of fun to experiment with new characters and drastically alter your handwriting.

I've always had meh handwriting. Not horrible, but not pretty either. I've been slowly converting my scratchy characters over to smoother, more flowy characters with embelleshments, since fountain pens make it so easy to play. The process was identical to what you described. Pick a character, play with alternatives until I found one I liked, then slowly retrain myself to use it.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#136

Post by sp332 » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:04 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #122

bambax wrote: post #107

> Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. There are crazy people in every country on earth, many (most) of which have worse "health care" systems than the US; yet only in the US do kids shoot other kids with automatic weapons. I very much doubt it has anything to do with mental health (nowhere else in the world are young children medicated for being kids to such…

"(nowhere else in the world are young children medicated for being kids to such an extent as in the US, BTW)." Virtually every single school shooter has been on SSRIs, and many people think these drugs have been the cause of the shootings. Already WaPo has reported that the CT shooter was on psychiatric medication, so we'll know for sure in a couple weeks when we get the tox screen back. http://www.ssristories.com/in…

Gun laws are getting more strict in the US; violent assault in general (and gun violence in particular) are at their lowest levels in about 40 years or so. Yet mass shootings are on the rise, and on average getting more deadly.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#137

Post by brown9-2 » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:05 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #53

mpweiher wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulating guns ("outlawing" is a straw man) ameliorates the problem of how much damage a mentally disturbed person can do. A knife in the same situation is much less dangerous, as evidenced by the incident in China at the same time where people were hurt, but none so far killed. Degrees matter.

Outlawing - at least if you are not police officer or soldier - is not a straw man at all. Only recently we got a SCOTUS decision that proclaimed US citizens have right to own guns, and that was a close one too. Before that, many places existed where private ownership of guns was essentially banned, and many still exist now, even though with the new decision they will be eventually phased out. However, people that in…

It's worth noting that Heller might not be as absolute of a decision in regard to a right to own any type of weapon/firearm as it seems - particularly read point 2 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#....

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#138

Post by aw11603 » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

joonix wrote: post #12

forrestthewoods wrote: post #7

Post like this terrify me. What if there isn't anything that can be done? It seems like there are some people that are just born broken or at some point they break. Men who experience schizophrenia it often stars in their late teens or early 20s, and late 20s/early 30s for women [1]. I had a friend in high school who was completely normal in every way. During his first year in college he literally just went crazy. It…

This may be politically incorrect to say right now, but I think the genes associated with mental illnesses that have a tendency to lead to violence will be phased out by a future generation sometime within this century and the next. We'll soon enough try gun control. That won't stop mass killings. Then we'll try increased mental healthcare access. That won't do much because we'll struggle with the Constitutionality o…

There is almost no mental illness with data that links it to genes. Schizophrenia, for instance, has no data showing a genetic cause and plenty data linking it to environment. Oliver James is lovely to read on this, if you fancy.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#139

Post by DanBC » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

trylater wrote: post #55

mattmiller wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have it figured out. You should call this woman have arrange to have the kid live with you for a few months. I'm sure he will be cured. Your last two comments may be the stupidest things I have ever heard. I would love to know more about you and know why you think you can fix such a complex problem in < 200 words.

> Damn! Do you guys even read the comments before typing out these pithy replies? The guy(LatterJohn) clearly said he is coming from the OPs son's perspective. That means he had the same issues OP's kid has. In my dictionary that means he has more knowledge about this stuff than you(unless you too are autistic). He is just telling what it's like being somebody with autism/aspy from his personal experience and you are…

No-one know what the OP son's perspective is, because there is not enough information in the article to tell what the diagnosis is.

Thus, the child might be Asperger's. But so what? Are you suggesting that all people with Asperger's are the same, will react the same way to situations?

There are other equally likely diagnoses, and the consequences of following LatterJohn's advice could be disastrous.

Re: Thinking the unthinkable

#140

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 16, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

dr_ wrote: post #109

Fumanchu wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in the States, I live in Europe. The blog post touched me deeply. However I grew up in a society where owning a gun is the exception. Almost nobody does. Reading the comments to the post, from people who have family experiencing same mental health problems, my heart goes out to them. But stating that guns isn't the problem, only the mental health system needs fixing, to me, sounds absurd. It reminds me o…

Agreed. Mental health problems are not limited to the United States. But widespread, poorly regulated, gun ownership is.

[deleted]