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Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
91–100 of 203 posts
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#92I have an aquaintance that was falsely accused of vehicular homicide because he had a car whose description was close enough for the police and he had to spend a decade in the legal system fighting for his freedom. And all of this is made possible because the police have access to records of which cars are owned and by whom and they can look at it. Should we not let the police use this information since this one indi…
I just want the point out that the reason that this is so scary is that your reasoning can be taken the other way. It's always a slippery slope. How much is too much? Anything that's now illegal to obtain, can be made legal and the process starts over.
If you begin to allow your freedom and liberty to be eroded bit by bit, you're not going to notice it when it's totally gone. There's a reason why the freedom to privacy is important, and there are reasons why it was (and is) a good idea to follow the "innocent until proven guilty" line of thought.
Now I'm unsure where I stand myself, between the 2 extremes: allow a murderer walk due to lack of evidence or allowing the government to lock up innocent civilians just based on an algorithm's "suspicion" without charge. There has to be a middle ground somewhere. What I do know is, with the way things are going, it's moving faster and faster towards the later...
I don't have the answer but I think we agree that the citizens of the country that will be put under surveylance should have a say on whether they are OK with it, not signed into law behind their backs. I mean, I thought that's what democracy is all about.
In either case, since I don't live in the US, all I can really do about it is talk. It's up to you guys to have meaningful discussions and take action (or not) on this. But just know that this will end up affecting the way other world power treat their citizens. The world will definitely be keep an close eye on this.
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, you're my target cause this comment is so obviously being uttered by someone who hasn't studied history in his/her whole life... Jeez ! (whom i don't believe in btw) Hacker new indeed.... Has anyone's been following dunno, wikileaks or Appelbaum or... Hacker news that are not on hackernews (which usurpates its name because what it really is is startup news) ? Eagle, the Athen Affair ( http://spectrum.ieee.org/tel…
I fear people are confusing things. Take the analogy of police patrols in streets. They may see all what you do and even control your identity and ask you questions. You may consider this as a frontal aggression to your privacy and right to move around without beeing spied. You may claim it's the same as the gestapo, or your preferred historical reference. It wouldn't be fully wrong. But see that it has also been und…
Police patrols are not one thing. It is not just "officer friendly" with a nightstick. In New York City, there are paramilitary teams wandering around in subway stations -- one can only recognize them as police because of the word POLICE written on their body armor.
Things have gotten excessive:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06/cops-military-gear/a...
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#94"Pre-crime" You thought it was a movie, now it's reality. Soon, it'll be something you get arrested for. Mark my words.
If you have a record then isn't it understandable that you might attract more attention than someone with a blameless past? It seems logical to me anyway. Obviously not to the extent that you'd be held but keeping an eye on you is fair enough imo.
"If you have a record then isn't it understandable that you might attract more attention than someone with a blameless past?"
Not when we have people who were charged with sex crimes because when they were 17 years old they dated a 15 year old, and who now have to register as sex offenders. The law has become completely out of control -- saying that someone has broken laws in the past is no more of a justification than saying that a person breathes air.
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#95Not another one!
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#96I don't understand the critics. Do you think that terrorists or criminals are detected by oracles ? You ridiculed the security agencies after 911 for not beeing able to detect such a plot and now you are in shock because they do their job ? There is no way to detect a plot while staying eyes shut. There is a problem, more precisely a risk, but it is not in collecting the data and processing it to detect a plot. It is…
Ok, you're my target cause this comment is so obviously being uttered by someone who hasn't studied history in his/her whole life... Jeez ! (whom i don't believe in btw) Hacker new indeed.... Has anyone's been following dunno, wikileaks or Appelbaum or... Hacker news that are not on hackernews (which usurpates its name because what it really is is startup news) ? Eagle, the Athen Affair ( http://spectrum.ieee.org/tel…
When innocent until proven guilty is removed (folks are presumed to do something that breaks the law in the future by this) we are heading down the wrong path. Many might say, "If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about". Except we don't know what is considered "wrong" so everyone has everything to worry about. "But we're a democracy so we don't have to worry about losing control!" others will say. I will point you to the wonderful "democratic" elections that are held in North Korea... that is the society and structure you get when utilizing "thought crimes and thought police".
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#97Are we so spooked as a nation that we're really considering precognition-style crime fighting? Liberties aside, this really makes me wonder what the atmosphere is like inside the government. With all of this paranoia, only two paths come to mind: 1.) They're aware of a future threat so large that it threatens the stability of the country, or 2.) They're planning something internally to "take over" the country one way or another.
In another view, you have to ask what this would do to society? A public so paranoid of being harassed by the government that they barely do anything, or, actually do go out and commit crimes. Despite our "intelligence" we're still animals and will behave so put under the right amount of strain. This is a time bomb.
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
The UK has a law called the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, within that is the notion of classes of criminal record being spent. I don't know the specifics, but you always have to declare the equivalent of felonies, but for misdemeanours you can lawfully not declare them after some period of time in which your debt is considered repaid and the record spent. The whole of the EU has such laws. I think most people with…
To reply to myself, the thing that I took away from his telling of this experience and watching his wife almost cry when they got to the part about boarding the plane back with the children... it's this: Every thing that you ever do is recorded somewhere. Every person has a file whether they think they do or not. This file will only ever be used against you. And Europe remembers such a thing... it was only 1990 that…
This. I think this form of non-judicial "punishment" and its effects in terms of people being afraid and hence modifying their behavior can be a form of censorship and political repression that is rarely discussed.
This also has a bearing on discussions whenever someone talks about freedom of expression.
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#99Our society would be extremely foolish to believe that we've not already been under deep surveillance by the government for quite a long time.
Re: Massive New Surveillance Program Uncovered by Wall Street Journal
#100I don't understand the critics. Do you think that terrorists or criminals are detected by oracles ? You ridiculed the security agencies after 911 for not beeing able to detect such a plot and now you are in shock because they do their job ? There is no way to detect a plot while staying eyes shut. There is a problem, more precisely a risk, but it is not in collecting the data and processing it to detect a plot. It is…
And then the Latin Kings or the 14K or the Camorra get their hands on the data. Then you're screwed.
(Of course that's if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, it's the Russian FSB or Chinese PSB).