Didn't UCSC try something like this? And didn't it not have net positive results?
U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
491–500 of 555 posts
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#492Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. > None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. Hate to break it to you mate but none of them are getting in. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about…
> Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about. The person whose view you endorse supports what many parents believe. I’ve seen how the sausage is made, and he has it (mostly) wrong. Many people seem to think that being more above average is the key to elite school admissions. It helps, and it’s directi…
The catch is that it is harder to brute force being truly exceptional in one thing. That often requires talent and predisposition.
Grinding 15 hours a day is a more realistic option for most children and parents.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#493When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…
> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…
My middle school circa 2004 in CT started at 7:30am. Similarly I was on swim team and we started practice around 5:30am in a Seattle suburb.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about. The person whose view you endorse supports what many parents believe. I’ve seen how the sausage is made, and he has it (mostly) wrong. Many people seem to think that being more above average is the key to elite school admissions. It helps, and it’s directi…
The catch is that it is harder to brute force being truly exceptional in one thing. That often requires talent and predisposition. Grinding 15 hours a day is a more realistic option for most children and parents.
> The catch is that it is harder to brute force being truly exceptional in one thing. That often requires talent and predisposition.
That’s true for sports, music, and academics, but I think “grinding” exceptional leadership can be a thing. It’s very learnable, and effort often times makes the difference.
Some simple examples I’ve seen in various forms:
- starting a meaningful business or non-profit
- starting a meaningful arts or sports experience (literary magazine, regional film festival, regional sports event/tournament, etc.)
- many/most substantial Eagle Scout projects (not all are substantial enough)
The heuristic I tell people to use is this — the reader of the application will go “no kidding… I’d really like to talk to this person and learn more about this” (aka “have a beer with them” type of sentiment)
> Grinding 15 hours a day is a more realistic option for most children and parents.
See above… grind at the right thing. Full-time grinding academics is a fools errand unless the applicant can demonstrate their competence at a regional level, if not national or international level.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
> sports practice until 5:00. Gotta have that activity on your college application, not counting other volunteering and clubs in the open spaces. Still baffles me why is that even a thing that's considered at the colleges. I thought it was just a relic of Soviet past but no, apparently it exists in the US and other first world countries as well for some strange reason.
It really isn't. I've never played formalized sports in my life and had no problem getting into multiple universities (yes, a few decades ago but I doubt if society has become more sports driven; on the contrary people often say that due to the tech boom we now live in an era where if anything, unsporty nerds have too much power)
A few decades ago is a millennium in college admissions for top schools. I went to a top 20 university. My kid, who was a way better hs student than I was and state ranked in music with a ISEF engineering award couldn’t get into any of his top 10 schools. Got waitlisted as a dual legacy from my university and ultimately settled for a top 35 school.
It was during COVID, when testing didn’t happen and schools had to rely on gut feel and high school reputation, so that may have played a role too.
He’s started his career now and wondering what to do with all his free time after eight years of living on six hours of sleep or less.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#496When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…
> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…
A previous grade school my kids attended (a public school in Calgary) started at 8. They left the house at 7:40ish to go, which was pretty awful.
Eventually we wound up home schooling / remote schooling during Covid and moved to a spot where the school started much later.
Frankly though, not late enough. I let them sleep until 10 during COVID and I feel it was positive for everyone involved.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
The catch is that it is harder to brute force being truly exceptional in one thing. That often requires talent and predisposition. Grinding 15 hours a day is a more realistic option for most children and parents.
> The catch is that it is harder to brute force being truly exceptional in one thing. That often requires talent and predisposition. That’s true for sports, music, and academics, but I think “grinding” exceptional leadership can be a thing. It’s very learnable, and effort often times makes the difference. Some simple examples I’ve seen in various forms: - starting a meaningful business or non-profit - starting a mean…
Still seems like a much more risky and challenging strategy with low chance of success.
What is the chance that a mediocre or talentless student can grind Regional success? What is the chance that mediocre and talentless parents can support that?
Grinding grades and academics is absolutely a path the top tier universities like Berkeley or UCLA, even if you won't get in the S tier private schools.
I've seen several ESL immigrant parents simply lock their kids up and make them study their way to Berkeley, despite having never graduated high school themselves.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. > None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. Hate to break it to you mate but none of them are getting in. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about…
The Ivy League (and top-tier) situation is out of control, and genuinely raises questions about whether institutions like this should exist.
> The Ivy League (and top-tier) situation is out of control, and genuinely raises questions about whether institutions like this should exist.
You're posting in a discussion where a hefty share of all posters are openly stating these schools being by far their top choice. Don't you think this correlates with demand for one of the limited spots they open each year?
What do you think would happen if Ivy League schools suddenly vanished from the face of the earth?
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…
> I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. Within 30 minutes in each direction this was the normal start time for practically all high schools in my area growing up. Where I live now my niece who I occasionally drive to school when weather is bad starts at 7:30. We need to leave her house by 6:45 to make it on time with traffic. The reason for the absurd starting times was always explained…
> The reason for the absurd starting times was always explained that bussing schedules forced it.
This sounds yet another problem created by urban planning, or lack thereof.
Being forced to do a 2 hour commute each day is not normal, regardless whether you are a kid going to school or a grownup going to work. It's not school that has a demanding schedule. It's requiring a 60 minute drive to attent said school that creates a demanding schedule.
Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’
#500This is a bewildering article and discussion. Grades and academic performance are outcomes. They're indirect stressors at best; why would one generation suddenly be unable to cope? The real story is what has changed to increase the stakes of grades. I suspect freshmen are taking out historic debt to contend with food, housing, and tuition costs meanwhile the entry-level job market is extraordinarily competitive. Ther…
At Berkeley and maybe the other UCs, your first-year grades matter even more than later ones if they determine whether you get into a major. So the overall acceptance rate is higher than schools of similar prestige, but that's because the competitive majors/schools have a higher bar to clear. There are some less competitive alternatives that nerf class signup priorities, like Cognitive Science.
I wonder if U of M is similar. But then they wouldn't be able to ignore grades.