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The Human Is the Loop

brentfitzgerald.com

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Re: The Human Is the Loop

#21

Post by borski »

rando103747202 wrote: post #12

This post really resonated with me - I’ve been having similar thoughts recently. That’s why I found the final paragraph to be a bit of a shock - “ More important: it’s freeing me up to do human stuff like write and reflect right now.” What? How? This doesn’t follow from the rest of the post at all. Maybe your new less frenetic and more human scale AI usage would be a good subject for the next post.

I think you misunderstood; the point was that not being constantly in front of Claude or another LLM is what has freed OP up.

That is, stepping away from the laptop is what has given them back some free time and brain space.

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#22

Post by borski »

veunes wrote: post #20
rando103747202 wrote: post #12

This post really resonated with me - I’ve been having similar thoughts recently. That’s why I found the final paragraph to be a bit of a shock - “ More important: it’s freeing me up to do human stuff like write and reflect right now.” What? How? This doesn’t follow from the rest of the post at all. Maybe your new less frenetic and more human scale AI usage would be a good subject for the next post.

And I think the missing piece is what prevents this new workflow from eventually turning back into the same productivity ouroboros

It isn’t writing the post. It’s doing research, providing background knowledge, evidence, etc… but the work is being done by OP.

That was my read, anyway.

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#24

Post by Systemerror7A69 »

borski wrote: post #13

I find it interesting that so many of my friends resonate with this. I… don’t, really. I only ever have 2-4 opencode/claude tabs open at once. And I use them for consistent tasks. There’s no way I’d be able to keep track otherwise. I have an “email reviewer” terminal, and a “doc maker” terminal, and 1-2 “coding” terminals. But I don’t start a half dozen things simultaneously (which is ironic, because I have ADHD). I…

I'm in a similar situation is you are, having ADHD, and my observations have been similar. I've been more hestiant to use AI at all for a while at the beginning but even now I only ever use it for one thing at a time. It helps me tremendously with the things I want to have done but not do - find out who clutters my home directory, build a small DMS plugin for local models, stuff like that. But even if I work on a bigger task and idea, it's mostly one thing I use it for at a time.

Maybe you're right in the fact that the coping mechanism help with that. Maybe using LLMs is similar in that it is easy to lose focus for neurotypicals so having lived with that we know how to handle it. Or maybe it's just us, who knows.

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#25

Post by borski »

Systemerror7A69 wrote: post #24
borski wrote: post #13

I find it interesting that so many of my friends resonate with this. I… don’t, really. I only ever have 2-4 opencode/claude tabs open at once. And I use them for consistent tasks. There’s no way I’d be able to keep track otherwise. I have an “email reviewer” terminal, and a “doc maker” terminal, and 1-2 “coding” terminals. But I don’t start a half dozen things simultaneously (which is ironic, because I have ADHD). I…

I'm in a similar situation is you are, having ADHD, and my observations have been similar. I've been more hestiant to use AI at all for a while at the beginning but even now I only ever use it for one thing at a time. It helps me tremendously with the things I want to have done but not do - find out who clutters my home directory, build a small DMS plugin for local models, stuff like that. But even if I work on a big…

I don’t know, there may be something to this. I shared this post with another ADHD friend of mine and he also resonated with your and my experience, not the OP’s.

Now I want to do a study!

I wonder if the extremely fast dopamine hits of LLM use trigger the same sort of dopaminergic response that ADHD does when faced with a stimulus? If so, are we simply better at dealing with those swings, since we’ve literally dealt with them our entire lives?

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#26

Post by jagenabler2 »

borski wrote: post #13

I find it interesting that so many of my friends resonate with this. I… don’t, really. I only ever have 2-4 opencode/claude tabs open at once. And I use them for consistent tasks. There’s no way I’d be able to keep track otherwise. I have an “email reviewer” terminal, and a “doc maker” terminal, and 1-2 “coding” terminals. But I don’t start a half dozen things simultaneously (which is ironic, because I have ADHD). I…

I’ve never been diagnosed with ADHD but this comment hits home. I also struggle to juggle multiple tasks and I’ve had to build a lot of personal strategies to be productive at my job. Otherwise I’d stay scatterbrained and never get anything done.

Things like drawing small defined boundaries, understanding where and how to delegate, and forcing myself to “hyperfocus” on 1-2 tasks at once. My strategy with building revolves around offloading mental context as fast as possible and into sequential, modular pieces. It’s made me a much better systems thinker. However, because of that I also don’t really see the point in running more than 1-2 coding agents at once. Others I work with don’t relate and are trying to parallelize as much as they can.

Part of me is concerned that this way of thinking isn’t compatible with the new wave of agentic SWE and these skills will become outdated. Or maybe it’s actually all converging back and is more valuable than ever.

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#28

Post by borski »

jagenabler2 wrote: post #26
borski wrote: post #13

I find it interesting that so many of my friends resonate with this. I… don’t, really. I only ever have 2-4 opencode/claude tabs open at once. And I use them for consistent tasks. There’s no way I’d be able to keep track otherwise. I have an “email reviewer” terminal, and a “doc maker” terminal, and 1-2 “coding” terminals. But I don’t start a half dozen things simultaneously (which is ironic, because I have ADHD). I…

I’ve never been diagnosed with ADHD but this comment hits home. I also struggle to juggle multiple tasks and I’ve had to build a lot of personal strategies to be productive at my job. Otherwise I’d stay scatterbrained and never get anything done. Things like drawing small defined boundaries, understanding where and how to delegate, and forcing myself to “hyperfocus” on 1-2 tasks at once. My strategy with building rev…

I honestly think it’s the latter. OP’s post is literally evidence of that. The “open twelve agents” is not only unsustainable (and leads to burnout) but fundamentally incompatible with building robust software. Sure, you can have agents fight it out, but at what mental (and actual cash) cost, and to what benefit?

I have not found myself less productive than my peers, but I have found myself less scattered across a bunch of different things. I do not think this is worse.

Also, consider reading about and/or getting tested for ADHD. You may not have it, of course, but I was diagnosed at 33 and it changed my life. Not because of medication (though I did that for about a year and a half, with success) but for a dozen other reasons, including being able to accept parts of myself rather than fight them, recognize (and reinforce) the coping mechanisms I’d built, recognize the ways in which it made me literally better than other people at certain things (some refer to ADHD being a “superpower” which it can definitely feel like at times), etc.

If you haven’t read Mark Suster’s posts about his experience with ADHD, read them - there are 3. If it resonates, consider talking to someone.

My email is in my profile; I’m happy to chat if you ever want. :)

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#29

Post by recursive »

veunes wrote: post #17
appplication wrote: post #2

I like this, and resonate with the same thoughts. I do wonder when it comes to work though if the answer isn’t doing less but maybe breaking through in some way. I don’t know what it looks like but I do have the feeling LLMs are here to stay. Or maybe it’s just keeping them in the work box - if someone wants to pay me to use LLMs and generate code, so be it. But keeping them away from hobbies, plans, art. Noble maybe…

I'm not sure "keep AI out of hobbies" quite works either. With young kids, reducing the activation energy can be the difference between doing a project and never doing it at all.

Not all projects should be done.

Re: The Human Is the Loop

#30

Post by jagenabler2 »

borski wrote: post #28
jagenabler2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never been diagnosed with ADHD but this comment hits home. I also struggle to juggle multiple tasks and I’ve had to build a lot of personal strategies to be productive at my job. Otherwise I’d stay scatterbrained and never get anything done. Things like drawing small defined boundaries, understanding where and how to delegate, and forcing myself to “hyperfocus” on 1-2 tasks at once. My strategy with building rev…

I honestly think it’s the latter. OP’s post is literally evidence of that. The “open twelve agents” is not only unsustainable (and leads to burnout) but fundamentally incompatible with building robust software. Sure, you can have agents fight it out, but at what mental (and actual cash) cost, and to what benefit? I have not found myself less productive than my peers, but I have found myself less scattered across a bu…

Really appreciate the reply :) I’ve read a ton on ADHD and pretty suspect that I do have it, but didn’t want to claim anything before going through a proper diagnosis (which I’ll get to, eventually!). I just ordered “Delivered from Distraction” which was recommended by Mark Suster. I’ll shoot you an email when I’m through it!

What I’m trying to solve right now is how to communicate this intuition with colleagues and management. It feels like fighting against the current and near impossible with the levels of hype. Hoping that we as an industry make this realization soon

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