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How Claude marks AI-generated content

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Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#221
post #15

> When a supported Claude model generates text, it weaves an imperceptible watermark directly into the text itself. You won’t see it, and it doesn’t change the meaning, quality, or readability of Claude’s response. I'd like to know a lot more about how that works. A lot of my interactions with Claude return pretty precise text. If I ask it to edit a project and refactor a specific function in several places I know ex…

Scott Aaronson talks about his project at OpenAI to do this^

You can carefully select which pseudorandom number generator (prng) you use to be able to id text of a certain length. I expect there is some performance characteristic you have to manage since you're doing this on every inference, but once you do that it doesn't change the output in any meaningful way (the prng is still a statistically valid prng, it just happens to let you check if the output used that prng)

The point is that you can do this simply by swapping to a different RNG, which isn't noticeable to the end user, and while it changes the output, it's not any different from how using a different seed or being lumped in a different batch will change the output.

^ excerpt:

> So then to watermark, instead of selecting the next token randomly, the idea will be to select it pseudorandomly, using a cryptographic pseudorandom function, whose key is known only to OpenAI. That won’t make any detectable difference to the end user, assuming the end user can’t distinguish the pseudorandom numbers from truly random ones. But now you can choose a pseudorandom function that secretly biases a certain score—a sum over a certain function g evaluated at each n-gram (sequence of n consecutive tokens), for some small n—which score you can also compute if you know the key for this pseudorandom function.

Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "code that Claude makes..."? Oh, how I laughed. That was never your code, my friend.

Please don't let the arbitrary selection of phrase distract you from the substance of my argument: a product that I pay for is at best no better due to this change, and highly probably worse. Why am I paying for a tool that is beholden to clandestinely satisfy some far away master?

Good question! Why are you paying for some tool that has always been beholden to some faraway master's opaque agenda?

Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "code that Claude makes..."? Oh, how I laughed. That was never your code, my friend.

Please don't let the arbitrary selection of phrase distract you from the substance of my argument: a product that I pay for is at best no better due to this change, and highly probably worse. Why am I paying for a tool that is beholden to clandestinely satisfy some far away master?

Because the tool is made by a corporation that is subject to regulation by a government, and that government has decided it’s in the best interests of society that the tool be limited in this way.

Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still need to choose when to do that though. When I prompt the program to e.g. alter a bash script in a specific way or to recite a longer known text it can't go round and randomly exchange tokens. It has to somehow define what is a simple repeated text from a different origin and what is a novel generation.

I am wondering how that applies to newly generated code. Odd variable naming? Stylistic choices that are watermarked? Or as someone else noted further down in the comments, it could be more subtle: Between the first and second most likely choice, in certain positions it will consistently choose in a certain way.

Personal observation: Opus 5, over the last week, has started outputting A LOT more comments. Despite my global instructions being full of variations on "don't use comments unless absolutely necessary".

I might be imagining things of course. But comments would be great fit for this use case.

Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#226
I wonder after how much editing an LLM output wont be reliably detectable? And what the EU law even says about this. I find that a good LLM workflow can be to generate outlines that are then edited pretty heavily manually to fit into whatever context it will be published in.

Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#228
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is any false positive rate (which, because text will naturally and by chance include tokens from the green and red sets in some pattern, there will be), tools making promises like "detect AI-generated text" are unacceptable. They are going to turn innocent people into pariahs on some unsubstantiated "this content is 37% likely to be AI" claim that the user has no way of verifying or inspecting more deeply, w…

I'm curious about your thoughts on pangram. I only really see posts on Reddit claiming it falsely labels their content as ai generated but nobody will actually post examples of "textbook from twenty years ago" or upload screenshots of a journal (also those posts usually feel deeply ai generated without an ai detector) Do you think this is an impossible task and we shouldn't try to solve it? Or do you think it's doabl…

This feels testable - you could go to fanfiction or similar sites with billions of words of writing from before 2016 or so and run them through it.

I tried a chapter just now and got human doing that, but I'm not invested enough to run a hundred samples today. But it sounds like it would be an alright way to audit it? I will confess I'm pretty skeptical you could ever eliminate false positives here though. I can often get an ai sense from some writing on my own but I doubt it would be better than 90% accurate, and "ai plus human editing" might screw with that anyway, stuff like that. I would have preferred we just never developed this kind of thing so I wouldn't have to guess.

Re: How Claude marks AI-generated content

#230
Many good comments here. It’s somewhat common for me to voice record say a blog post of product updates, more like a ramble. Then have Claude clean it up. Then argue back and forth about certain things until it’s good, then make a final pass sometimes to change a few key words. This is incredibly different than pure ai text. Presumably it will show as ai generated here, even though I would argue it is not really. So I can’t use Claude for this usecase anymore.

I think the solution is assume everything is ai generated unless told otherwise and rely on authorship/brand as a sign of quality.

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