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Sonic Pi v5

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Re: Sonic Pi v5

#51

Post by amiga386 »

noman-land wrote: post #9
gizajob wrote: post #8

why is the Amen Brother breakbeat included in this software as if it's open source and GPL / MIT license? Just because something has been stolen a million times, that doesn't make it public domain, it's still under copyright and owned by its publisher, who I'm pretty certain has never given it away under a free license.

I'd be really curious for this particular sample to go to court because unless The Winstons have been aggressively enforcing this copyright they may have already lost it to the public domain.

That's not how copyright works. There is no "use it or lose it". You legally retain control of licensing for copying and distribution, including derivative works (samples) for the full copyright duration.

In this case, it's a music recording published in the USA between 1957 and 1972, so the copyright expires on 15 February 2067: https://library.mi.edu/musiccopyright/duration

There's a limit of 3 years for you to bring a copyright infringement case after a specific infringement takes place, but that doesn't stop you from bringing further cases against further infringements. You don't "lose" copyright if you fail to self-police it, as you might lose a trademark.

It gets very complicated around this specific 1969 sound recording and suing for copyright infringement, because prior to 1972, sound recordings were subject to US state law (presumably Georgia as the Holly Bee Music Co. was incorporated in Atlanta?) rather than federal law.

Ultimately, no samplers paid The Winstons any royalties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break#Royalties

The drummer, Gregory Coleman, died homeless and penniless. Some UK DJs raised money for the bandleader, Richard Lewis Spencer, in 2015. He died in 2020. So there's probably not going to be anyone suing you for infringing the copyright on Amen, Brother, but it's not not infringement.

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#52

Post by samaaron »

pzo wrote: post #45
samaaron wrote: post #2

Sonic Pi v5 is released. Sonic Pi is now more friendly, more accessible, more powerful and more fun. There's something to excite everyone - from the friendlier error messages, to the pro-audio config, to the new dynamic visuals for performance. Enjoy!

if you want to attract more userbase that's probably the least meaningful copy-text someone can provide. Not only doesn't even in one sentence what sonic pi v5 is but also doesn't explain whats difference between v4 and v5 - I mean what it means more friendly/accessible/fun really?

Not sure if it’s possible to explain this in one sentence - I was just explaining the goals.

As a summary - friendly as in better autocomplete, better error messages. There are vast accessibility improvements for those with low vision and those that use screen readers. It’s more fun for many reasons but stand out ones are support for game controller input, interactive docs and low-friction QuickStart cards.

The post linked goes into more detail and the release notes go even further: https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi/releases/tag/v5.0.0

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#53

Post by samaaron »

glimshe wrote: post #46
samaaron wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually v5 no longer uses SuperCollider’s scsynth engine. I completely replaced it with my own port called SuperSonic - which targets native (used in this Sonic Pi release), WASM and embedded. See https://github.com/samaaron/supersonic

It seems that SuperSonic also uses GPL, no?

Yep, as it’s a derivative work. But I have put effort into making the interface purely network shaped so it’s possible to use it from non-gpl projects without them being considered a derivative work and triggering the gpl.

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#54

Post by spacechild1 »

samaaron wrote: post #39
glimshe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the underlying Supercollider sound engine uses the more restrictive GPL, though...

Actually v5 no longer uses SuperCollider’s scsynth engine. I completely replaced it with my own port called SuperSonic - which targets native (used in this Sonic Pi release), WASM and embedded. See https://github.com/samaaron/supersonic

Hi, Sam! I have to say that's a strange statement. SuperSonic still uses scsynth as its synthesis engine. How is that a "complete replacement"?

I see that you are trying to circumvent the GPL, with somewhat dubious arguments. I'm pretty sure that running scsynth in an AudioWorklet creates a combined program and not an aggregate. (I'm not the only one who has raised this concern.)

Since scsynth is the foundation of Sonic Pi, why not respect the intention of its author?

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#55

Post by samaaron »

spacechild1 wrote: post #54
samaaron wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually v5 no longer uses SuperCollider’s scsynth engine. I completely replaced it with my own port called SuperSonic - which targets native (used in this Sonic Pi release), WASM and embedded. See https://github.com/samaaron/supersonic

Hi, Sam! I have to say that's a strange statement. SuperSonic still uses scsynth as its synthesis engine. How is that a "complete replacement"? I see that you are trying to circumvent the GPL, with somewhat dubious arguments. I'm pretty sure that running scsynth in an AudioWorklet creates a combined program and not an aggregate. (I'm not the only one who has raised this concern.) Since scsynth is the foundation of So…

Sorry if it came across as strange. I’m just making sure people don’t confuse the two as SuperSonic isn’t an official SuperCollider project and I don’t want to cause any confusion.

I’m also definitely not wanting to circumnavigate the GPL! I have wholeheartedly embraced it as whilst I would argue it isnt scsynth it is most definitely a derivative work with a lot of shared code. There’s also a lot that is different/new.

Instead I’m only attempting to uphold the same network boundary that has existed since v3 of SuperCollider. When used over a network using an open and documented protocol that doesn’t tend to be considered a derivative work. This is observed in other software is such as databases.

Oh and in Sonic Pi’s case I am not running anything in an audioworklet. SuperSonic is built and shipped in its native form as a totally separate process. No js or browsers involved.

Sorry for any confusion.

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#56

Post by spacechild1 »

samaaron wrote: post #53
glimshe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that SuperSonic also uses GPL, no?

Yep, as it’s a derivative work. But I have put effort into making the interface purely network shaped so it’s possible to use it from non-gpl projects without them being considered a derivative work and triggering the gpl.

Careful! Just because you are exchanging messages via sockets does not necessarily make it a mere aggregate! Quoting the official GPL FAQ:

> By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger program.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#57

Post by WithinReason »

samaaron wrote: post #48
WithinReason wrote: post #47

I tried it for a few seconds but there is a huge lag between pressing a button and the sound, and half the time the button press does nothing. It's basically unusable.

By default there’s a 500ms latency as this gives all target platforms sufficient breathing space for system pauses and other work not to affect the scheduling. Multiple presses spawn multiple threads which layer over each other - unless you’re using Live Loops in which case it triggers hot code swapping. What was the code you were running? Happy to help. We also have a friendly forum to ask questions and get help: ht…

Thanks I appreciate the response but this is not for me. I clicked "your first note" and got a runtime error "Promise timed out after 3 seconds".

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#58

Post by Lapel2742 »

samaaron wrote: post #2

Sonic Pi v5 is released. Sonic Pi is now more friendly, more accessible, more powerful and more fun. There's something to excite everyone - from the friendlier error messages, to the pro-audio config, to the new dynamic visuals for performance. Enjoy!

I tried it. but the Flatpak seems to be missing some of the documentation.

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#59

Post by zaphar »

I donate to this software because it's so much fun to play around with. My wife (of 30 years as of today) knows way more about music than I do and this is one way for me to connect a little bit with her hobby.

Re: Sonic Pi v5

#60

Post by samaaron »

spacechild1 wrote: post #56
samaaron wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, as it’s a derivative work. But I have put effort into making the interface purely network shaped so it’s possible to use it from non-gpl projects without them being considered a derivative work and triggering the gpl.

Careful! Just because you are exchanging messages via sockets does not necessarily make it a mere aggregate! Quoting the official GPL FAQ: > By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, ex…

Oh that sounds like the official SuperCollider stance might be that any use of scsynth from an existing project via the network OSC API is considered an aggregate. Is this the case?

I definitely don’t want to create any issues and it would be great to get some clarity here.

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