This person learned half the framework, then refused to listen when the adult on the other side of the phone explained their reasons for having to have the A/C on, then wants ... what? for demonstrating their misunderstanding? > He listed some vague reasons, compressor this, compressor that, costs, etc... which I didn't care to understand. > two adults should be able to ask each other for what they want ... Which the…
Saying No
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Re: Saying No
#42The closest they came to negotiation was when they were doing yoga alone in one room and "decided" to allow a dozen other people in a different room to turn their A/C on.
> On these days, I've told them to turn the AC off until we're done. One day, I was the only one practicing and I had to tell this to a dozen people outside the room. I will never forget the bugged looks I got back. Eventually their leader spoke up and we decided that they can turn on the AC further away from the room.
Then when the other tenants finally get sick of this, they get the owner on the phone. This is the negotiating opportunity. Instead, this person gloats about not listening:
> The man on the other end introduced himself as some authority figure and told me to turn the AC back on. He listed some vague reasons, compressor this, compressor that, costs, etc... which I didn't care to understand. But then he asked me in an accusing tone, why I turned it off despite the note saying not to. Peter Block would find this question childish. After all, two adults should be able to ask each other for what they want. They should expect a possible answer to be 'No' and be prepared to negotiate the difference.
I think they forgot to consider that the other person can also say "no". This is the climax of the negotiation opportunity, and he uses it to tell off the manager:
> After some filler words, he said he will talk to the owner terminating the contract and giving a refund. I said great and hung up.
The intense worship for Peter Block throughout the post is a strange contrast to the way they fail to implement any part of the advice other than the "No" part.
There was no negotiation here. Just a strange pyrrhic victory.
Re: Saying No
#43So at the beginning of the story you started with a rented space you and others practice yoga, and the end result is that you lost your practice room, without gaining anything else other then… slightly more confidence? Is there supposed to be a teaching in here?
To not be a pushover. The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. So this is probably the better outcome.
The alternative was using the phone call with the manager to calmly explain the situation and try to negotiate.
The blog kept talking about using "no" as a starting point for negotiating, then when the negotiation opportunity peaked he refused to listen to the other person and gloated about it.
The second half of the book's advice (the negotiate part) flew right over his head. He was too stuck on the "No" part.
Re: Saying No
#44Re: Saying No
#45This person learned half the framework, then refused to listen when the adult on the other side of the phone explained their reasons for having to have the A/C on, then wants ... what? for demonstrating their misunderstanding? > He listed some vague reasons, compressor this, compressor that, costs, etc... which I didn't care to understand. > two adults should be able to ask each other for what they want ... Which the…
Re: Saying No
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the very least it's a cliff hanger. If the authority figure has the balls to say 'fine, I'll get your contract terminated' I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that was exactly the outcome.
You should probably be a bit more surprised. There is a class of people (specially) in business, who threaten a lot habitually and don't act on it, if you call the bluff. The reason is that a lot of people do cave. "Free" wins. If it does not work, they just pretend nothing happened.
Few people cave when there are lots of eyes on them., and less people make empty threats with a bar full of spectators - that's why punches get thrown.
Regardless : 'I'm a renter' is by no means a strong argument unless you have a very specifically worded renter agreement -- it's pretty obviously a bad idea to anger the crowd of presumably better paying tenants, what would you do as a land owner, kick out the group every other tenant hates or change policy to protect the small fry?
Re: Saying No
#47So at the beginning of the story you started with a rented space you and others practice yoga, and the end result is that you lost your practice room, without gaining anything else other then… slightly more confidence? Is there supposed to be a teaching in here?
To not be a pushover. The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. So this is probably the better outcome.
Re: Saying No
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should probably be a bit more surprised. There is a class of people (specially) in business, who threaten a lot habitually and don't act on it, if you call the bluff. The reason is that a lot of people do cave. "Free" wins. If it does not work, they just pretend nothing happened.
They also threaten things that they have no real power or authority to actually do, because they are used to people just rolling over and letting them get their way.
Being in the same yacht club as the owner of the building conveys these kind of powers - it's like no one has encountered preferential treatment, good or bad, before.
Re: Saying No
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
To not be a pushover. The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. So this is probably the better outcome.
> The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. The alternative was using the phone call with the manager to calmly explain the situation and try to negotiate. The blog kept talking about using "no" as a starting point for negotiating, then when the negotiation opportunity peaked he refused to listen to the other person and gloated about it. The second half of the book's advice (the negotiate…
Re: Saying No
#50It feels to me as if the author got it backwards - in turning the AC back on, they didn’t „say no“ - the person who put up the note has „said no“ in the first place (to the practice of turning the ACs off) and the author was ignoring this clearly visible outlined boundary that other person has drawn. Don’t get me wrong, the note itself wasn’t great either, but ignoring it wasn’t some great sign of „saying no“ - it wa…
> They should expect a possible answer to be 'No' and be prepared to negotiate the difference. I didn't throw these wise words back at him, but that's what was going through my head. And it emboldened me further. I simply told him the room is unusable for yoga with the AC on and we've paid rent for the room.
They were emboldened to discard even mentioning negotiation and stood their ground instead. That might be fine if the lesson you're trying to illustrate is one about firm boundaries but the advice they're holding up here was very much the opposite.