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Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

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Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#241

Post by notdrunkatall »

thetabyte wrote: post #233
schrototo wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is utterly fascinating to me how much discussion there is around this, here on this forum and in other places. In no other country in the world would this even be a debate... Of course you want to disarm everyone! That is the only sensible option! There is absolutely no need why anyone , save members of the executive branch enforcing the government's monopoly on violence, would ever need to carry a firearm. "Self…

I'm genuinely interested—is this the consensus opinion of most of the developed world outside of the US? I'm a US citizen, and generally consider myself liberal and progressive. I favor much stricter gun control laws. But I'm not sure I do favor complete disarmament of the citizenship. I do believe that the knowledge—not the use—of citizen's arms does provide a reminder to the government in times of crisis. But am I…

Pretty sure he's being sarcastic.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#242

Post by recoiledsnake »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #176
dradtke wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean we should start encouraging everyone to carry guns, knives, diesel fuel, whatever. "More guns" isn't the solution any more than "fewer guns" is, but I would still feel safer if I knew that getting a gun was more difficult than a stroll into the corner shop.

More people are carrying guns though, and yet overall violent crime has been falling. It's not the gun. Guns are tools, they aren't the problem. We need to be better at being able to detect these individuals who are likely to go on these rampages. But more than that we need to have a society that is better able to defend itself. If even 1 in 20 or fewer teachers at a school were people who were responsible and traine…

> If even 1 in 20 or fewer teachers at a school were people who were responsible and trained and carried guns for self-defense then these sorts of attacks would be far less common. Because the attacks would be ended sooner by armed citizens acting in defense. And because then schools and other places would no longer be defenseless.

I call BS on this. In such a situation there's a lot of confusion and panic about what is exactly happening. It's not like everyone knows how many shooters there are and how they look like. Someone pulling out a gun can easily mistaken to be an attacher and could be attacked himself by someone else trying to be good samaritan while himself being mistook for an attacker by the original good samaritan resulting in chaos. This is not like the movies where everyone knows who the bad and good guys are.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#243

Post by [deleted] »

pg wrote: post #19
ColinWright wrote: post #8

From http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. Yes, this is important, yes, it's newsworthy. No, it's not "Hacker News". It's all over the news, and there's nothing specific about hacking, or start-ups. It's not even of "deep interest" in any real sense. It's tragedy, pure and simple, and then it becomes pol…

Note those words most and probably.

[deleted]

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#244

Post by recoiledsnake »

notdrunkatall wrote: post #214
recoiledsnake wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that easy availability of guns amplify the destruction that can be perpetuated by mentally unstable individuals. A similar incident happened in China today where 22 kids were stabbed by one perpetrator but not one had life threatening injuries. What if Walmart China sold guns like the US one does? How many innocent kids would be dead today? > How much liberty do we all give up, to limit the devastation…

The right to bear arms isn't some trivial notion to be tossed aside when it is no longer convenient to maintain. It is a fundamental right that was given to the people by those who founded our government that we would be able to fight back against that same government were it to ever become oppressive. Every day, we increasingly see the infringement of our civil liberties, and it seems obvious that the desire of the…

The laws made more sense during the 1700s than now. No one really has any chance now. You discount the entire industrial and technological progress that happened in the past 200 years.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#245

Post by schrototo »

notdrunkatall wrote: post #241
thetabyte wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely interested—is this the consensus opinion of most of the developed world outside of the US? I'm a US citizen, and generally consider myself liberal and progressive. I favor much stricter gun control laws. But I'm not sure I do favor complete disarmament of the citizenship. I do believe that the knowledge—not the use—of citizen's arms does provide a reminder to the government in times of crisis. But am I…

Pretty sure he's being sarcastic.

Actually I'm not, but reading the post again I see how it could come off that way... (edit: at least to an American...)

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#246

Post by nerfhammer »

notdrunkatall wrote: post #240
econnors wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this argument is that guns would do little to counteract an oppressive government. What about the airplanes, the navy, the artillery that our military possess? Guns are hardly a "final check against the formation of a potentially oppressive regime."

Afghanistan.

It's a foreign occupying power there. Very different record.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#247

Post by dbaupp »

gnu8 wrote: post #158
maqr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty soon, anyone who wants a gun will be able to 3d-print one. I think "gun control" will soon become "technology control", which is going to be tricky because this community appears to be largely anti-gun and pro-tech.

Most members of this community see the absurdity of making a certain string of bits illegal, whether its the private key to decrypt blu-ray discs or describes the shape of a firearm. What's odd is that they don't see the parallel absurdity of outlawing a piece of metal carved into the shape of a firearm. Perhaps they will now that its possible to produce the object from the bits.

What's odd is that they don't see the parallel absurdity of outlawing a piece of metal carved into the shape of a firearm

What parallel absurdity?

A number's meaning is entirely arbitrary and dependent on the context: a bit-string that is a pattern for a firearm in program A might be a perfectly valid music file in program B.

Firearm is a piece of metal that had to be precision shaped to throw small pellets of metal at very high speeds.

(I'll agree that 3D printing muddies the waters though.)

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#248

Post by notdrunkatall »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #244
notdrunkatall wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms isn't some trivial notion to be tossed aside when it is no longer convenient to maintain. It is a fundamental right that was given to the people by those who founded our government that we would be able to fight back against that same government were it to ever become oppressive. Every day, we increasingly see the infringement of our civil liberties, and it seems obvious that the desire of the…

The laws made more sense during the 1700s than now. No one really has any chance now. You discount the entire industrial and technological progress that happened in the past 200 years.

I assume you're making the argument that a ragtag bunch of rebels wouldn't have a chance standing against an empire armed to the teeth with the latest war machines. If that is indeed the case, have you been paying attention to the news for the last decade?

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#249

Post by jlgreco »

nerfhammer wrote: post #246
notdrunkatall wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan.

It's a foreign occupying power there. Very different record.

It is different in many other ways too. For example, the people American soldiers are shooting at (for the most part) speak another language, have a different religion, have a different culture, and look different.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#250

Post by nollidge »

mnicole wrote: post #193
nollidge wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment.

Sorry, thought you were insinuating that changing the laws on obtaining one would make a difference in stopping those who will essentially do whatever they need to to get it. :)

I definitely was insinuating that, along with lots of other things.

So everyone who wants a gun will do whatever they need to get it? No one who wants a gun will be deterred by any possible prevention measures?

Measures such as background checks, safety class requirements, mental health checks, restrictions on high-capacity or high-throughput weapons, higher taxes, manufacturer and supply chain oversight, spying on domestic traffickers, or closing the gun show loophole?

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