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US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

bloomberg.com

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Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#311

Post by FrinkleFrankle »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #286
constantius wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people on HN have either served in the US mil or are sympathetic, and have successfully solved their cognitive dissonance about killing 10k people for 1 soldier. But you're right, whoever they killed was most often either a civilian, someone defending their country, or someone forced to defend their country from an invader. While the US soldiers kill either because they believe in the crazy narratives pushed…

Were all US soldiers in the Revolutionary War war criminals? What about the North in the Civil War? Or WWI/WWII? Nearly every soldier in any war will have directly or indirectly killed an innocent civilian. Which ones are war crimes and which aren’t? How do you decide and who gives you the authority to do so?

I'd say anyone who chooses to kill a civilian, whether based on an order or not, is a war criminal. I really don't care if they thought they were there for a noble cause or not.

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#312

Post by megous »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #286
constantius wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people on HN have either served in the US mil or are sympathetic, and have successfully solved their cognitive dissonance about killing 10k people for 1 soldier. But you're right, whoever they killed was most often either a civilian, someone defending their country, or someone forced to defend their country from an invader. While the US soldiers kill either because they believe in the crazy narratives pushed…

Were all US soldiers in the Revolutionary War war criminals? What about the North in the Civil War? Or WWI/WWII? Nearly every soldier in any war will have directly or indirectly killed an innocent civilian. Which ones are war crimes and which aren’t? How do you decide and who gives you the authority to do so?

Who gives US president authority to just murder whoever he wants?

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#313

Post by debo_ »

"American Special Forces tried to burn out the Russian Computer Network at Kiernsk. Basic assault module was a Nightwing microlight... A matrix deck, a jockey, and a virus program called Mole..."

https://williamgibson.fandom.com/wiki/Screaming_Fist

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#314

Post by tough »

ciupicri wrote: post #305
blackqueeriroh wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were all US soldiers in the Revolutionary War war criminals? What about the North in the Civil War? Or WWI/WWII? Nearly every soldier in any war will have directly or indirectly killed an innocent civilian. Which ones are war crimes and which aren’t? How do you decide and who gives you the authority to do so?

What does indirectly killed mean?

Sounds like a weird way to phrase collateral damage?

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#315

Post by encrypted_bird »

Loquebantur wrote: post #267
CircuitSeuss wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! But I don't think that’s the most plausible answer here.

[flagged]

You know, people would be more receptive to you if you wouldn't talk down on them. I mean, for gods' sakes, parent specifically partially agreed with you(!) and yet you *still* talked down to them.

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#316

Post by Planktonne »

jckahn wrote: post #183
culi wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it's not like we know those "adversaries" ever wanted to murder us. For example, the US has a long record of assassinating labor leaders in South America to protect our Banana Republics on behalf of Chiquita. I think it's absolutely fair to bring in skepticism towards the secrets our military keeps from us

Do you believe that "death to America" chants should not be taken seriously?

If they have no practical way of acting on the chant, then it's just bluster.

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#317

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

cco wrote: post #201
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #11

I suspect the Cold War of cyber warfare that is happening is orders of magnitude bigger than the public knows. Imagine knowing this and not being able to get emotional support from your friends and family.

Counterpoint, industry cyber security is so generally weak, if there were actually a secret "huge cold cyber war" on-going, we'd see real world impact. Since we don't, it probably isn't happening.

> Counterpoint, industry cyber security is so generally weak, if there were actually a secret "huge cold cyber war" on-going, we'd see real world impact.

But we do: ransomware stories are in the news all the time; while they likely aren’t being directly executed by the Russian or Chinese governments they are being allowed to happen because they aid state interests: for example, https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/cybersecurity-advisories/aa...

…or more insidiously: political influence campaigns, which are very much a cyber concern, and even easier to deny.

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#318

Post by austin-cheney »

jawiggins wrote: post #233
nosmokewhereiam wrote: post #111

Glad to see this brought up! My entire Air Force experience is blocked to comment on besides basic training...Tech school and forward is NDA'd, read in, etc You don't really get to sneak a glimpse of operations and write a book like the SEALs seem get to (jk!)

What is it about being a Navy Seal that makes you want to become an influencer? From the books, podcasts, and misc media appearances you'd think that the Seal Teams were made for media like the Blue Angels.

I should write a book about being a fobbit in the Army who sits around all day bored as hell. I suspect it would sound strikingly similar to Catch 22.

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#319

Post by impossiblefork »

cookiengineer wrote: post #38
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #11

I suspect the Cold War of cyber warfare that is happening is orders of magnitude bigger than the public knows. Imagine knowing this and not being able to get emotional support from your friends and family.

There's lots of people working for NATO and federal agencies in Europe that have been assassinated by the luckystrike branch of the FSB. The name comes from the Telegram account with underscores in between, and they're essentially recruiting kids or former inmates for GTA style missions. Starts with simple stuff like package rerouting, then goes on to gathering intel about places, people, putting in USB flash drives…

I have heard of zero murders of NATO and EU agency people, and I think you're quite wrong.

There are of course people like this, recruited on the internet in the many criminal networks that exist, but I don't think they've had any notable successes.

Re: US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide

#320

Post by yosefk »

breppp wrote: post #289
throw310822 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bringing democracy" is a very weak ideological motivation. I would rather call it plausible deniability. As in "we're doing this to bring democracy" and people might be left with the doubt that it's true.

It is a very weak ideological motivation for people who would never enlist in the first place. However, I think people are generally too cynical towards a very real belief system. There are multiple examples of US pushing for democracy against its own interest. Bush with the Hamas Gaza elections, Obama with the Egypt Muslim Brotherhood government and Carter with pre-revolution Iran are such examples

Bush knew what he was doing - Hamas has the influence it has because the US wants it to have it. When Trump decided he wants them to release Israeli hostages he forced them to do it rather quickly, all things considered, showing who really controls Hamas. Restraining American "allies" is key to how America understands its interests and Hamas is an excellent lever to pressure Israel, or Hamas-controlled Gaza wouldn't be flooded with American and European money.

Similarly, Obama supported the Muslim Brotherhood because he did; in Ukraine for instance the same admin supported a coup against the elected government (this is not to say that Russia's actions in Ukraine are "justified", it's just a fact.) Democracy has nothing to do with any of this

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