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“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

blog.senko.net

201–210 of 354 posts

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#201
post #72

I believe there are some programming jobs in which the code is absolutely the easier part. Not all of us work in signal processing, integrated systems or have to push upstream to Linux kernel because the company we work for really needs a memory allocation optimization for its data centers. Navigating customer requirements and building something that satisfies both market's needs and company strategy can be an incred…

I think it could be summed up with "it being easy part of the problem doesn't mean it is easy, just *easier than the rest"

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#202
post #72

I believe there are some programming jobs in which the code is absolutely the easier part. Not all of us work in signal processing, integrated systems or have to push upstream to Linux kernel because the company we work for really needs a memory allocation optimization for its data centers. Navigating customer requirements and building something that satisfies both market's needs and company strategy can be an incred…

Yes, I resonate with this and the article above. I think 80% of a SWE's job is to communicate with the XFN partners (either gathering requirements, pushing back, managing up, collaborations, etc) and then plan out the actual coding (gather code pointers, look at past code, plan architecture, talk to the team). The last 10% is the coding. And then the other 10% is the maintenance of that and past code (which honestly…

The percentages are different for different types of SWEs, not all SWEs spend 80% of their time on XFN comms. I agree with your larger point that a non-trivial amount of a SWE's time is spent on XFN comms and team alignment. My argument is that if an individual contributor is not spending a majority of their time on problem solving and implementation (including maintenance of legacy code), they are not maximizing their potential. If they are spending 80% of their time on non-coding activity they are better suited for an Manager role (Engineering or Product). At the end of the day, coding is not hard only if you are a good coder to begin with. If you are a good EM/PM then people issues will not be hard (which coders often complain about).

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#204
There’s too many dimensions to make broad claims like this and it always makes me wince a little.

In my career code was the hard part for the first few years. Then I got over the hump and everything else about my job was harder. Today code is the easiest and least interesting part. But I’ve also experienced in 13 years maybe… I’m going to say 2% of the world of professional coding. I bet if tomorrow I was asked to do some kernel optimization or make Postgres better or reverse engineer an emulator for some PLC something something, I would be deep into a land where code is the hard part.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#205
post #72

I believe there are some programming jobs in which the code is absolutely the easier part. Not all of us work in signal processing, integrated systems or have to push upstream to Linux kernel because the company we work for really needs a memory allocation optimization for its data centers. Navigating customer requirements and building something that satisfies both market's needs and company strategy can be an incred…

I've been programming for 30 years and "Code was never the hard part" does not offend me. It's something i've been saying for a long time. You can teach anyone the mechanics of coding well in like 6 months.

Programming is the hard part! I want to make this distinction because to me programming is about solving problems and coding is a way to express the solution.

Designing algorithms, architectures, etc can be done without a programming language. Coding is putting it down into some language.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#206
The truth of that statement depends on what you consider as "coding".

The way I would define it, coding is to software development as cutting is to open heart surgery. It is the final part of the process after 99% of the decision making and application of experience has already been done. There is still some craft or "surgical technique" to it, but the hard part was surely everything that came before (requirements, architecture, design, etc, etc) that got you to the point where all you had left was a bunch of classes and fully specced out modules (and implied test cases) to code up.

I feel that some people, maybe including a lot of the people working at the AI companies, think that the software development job mostly consists of "coding", and perhaps in machine learning (not much code in an LLM!) it mostly does, but if you are a developer and define coding as the final "sit down and implement it" phase, then surely that is the easy part.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#207
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

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Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#208

These comments reveal a stark reality: most HN commenters have never worked on a really hard problem. They think hard problems are leetcode hards that have a prescribed list of known techniques to apply. They think communication, alignment, gathering requirements, and other political bullshit is the hard part because they have never actually solved or had to grapple with a truly hard problem. That’s fine, but it show…

Maybe the future has those as two different jobs re: hard problems.

- The sorcerer: Have meetings with others until you know just how valuable a solution to this hard problem actually is, characterize it well, pool resources use cases and documentation, and then work with whatever wizard (or university thereof) is known to be able to solve that kind of problem. Have them find a solution to the hard problem and publish it. Use that publication as context, and have your LLMs integrate the solution.

- The wizard: Find hard problems with adequate funding behind them. Solve them. Don't worry about stakeholders or integrations--the problems are hard enough on their own.

It used to be we found ourselves jumping back and forth between sorcerer and wizard. But there are so many hard problems with solutions that are now in the training data for these models. A relevant skill for the sorcerer, besides the skills that are relevant in those meetings, is not solving hard problems head on, but being a sort of remixer of existing solutions to hard problems.

I think this would actually be better, because more hard problems would get solved in the open where they can benefit everybody, rather than ending up as IP-shaped ammo for zero sum games.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#209
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touch billing, touch medical data, be at a B2B company that needs to catch all the ISOs to have a chance to land bigger contracts. I don't think it's uncommon.

It's questionable though how much the programmer is operating under it. The programmer's work may need to comply, but there are a bunch of things that can reduce how much the programmer themself deals with it. There are the executives, the lawyers, the product managers, sometimes the designers, who to varying degrees determine this before they land in the requirements the programmer sees. But there are also the libra…

Even if you get a crispy set of requirements from all parties you are still responsible for implementing all of then while making sense of the existing system (and from my experience significant issues arise at this stage when the full extent of requirement implications ia better understood). On top of that you might also be responsible for operating the thing, participate in compliance doc writing and do ongoing maintenace.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#210
post #24

A pretty weak essay. The arguments are couched in questions… which all either have ready answers or imply strawman arguments that few are making. I suspect it’s emotional and indirect because the author understands how poor its arguments are. That leaves open the question of why do the blog post at all, but I guess bloggers have to blog, whether or not they’ve got anything to say. An angry, emotional, vague post prob…

Those who know, do. Those that understand, teach.
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