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Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

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Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#71

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #13
untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.

For all the rationale I ever heard about gun rights, the one you gave here might be the worst ever. If the government should fear it's citizens it's f* up already, you might as well have real diplomatic or military intervention, not let people die fighting in the street like happens right now in Syria [1].

The sad truth is, oppressive regimes exist in the first place because more powerful nations benefit from it. My own country lived for 17 years under an oppressive regime backed by the gun bearing, world's freedom and democracy flagship.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsWGuLzsWk&list=PLC4FDC3...

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#72

Post by InclinedPlane »

untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

This has nothing to do with gun control. Guns exist, that can't be stopped any more than preventing alcohol from existing (prohibition), and some bad guys will always have access to guns. Or knives, or diesel fuel, or explosives.

Was the Oklahoma-city bombing a wake-up call for "explosives control"? Was the 2009 Chengdu bus-fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Chengdu_bus_fire) a wake-up call for diesel control? Was the Osaka school massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre) a wake-up call for knife-control? Was the 2012 Toronto mall shooting a wake-up call for gun-control in Canada, which already has extremely stringent gun-laws?

It's all too easy to blame the gun in these situations, but guns are just tools, as are knives, and diesel fuel, and even explosives.

It's not the gun. It never was the gun. It's the person.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#73

Post by protomyth »

untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

I would really rather we talk about mental health and brain chemistry. Objects are easy to vilify, but we are ignoring mental health in this country and this is the result. The number of people walking around with untreated Schizophrenia is seriously problematic. The shooter in NM set off so many warnings that were ignored by people in power that it should have been seen. When the dust settles, I would expect a similar narrative on warning signs.

How many times are we going to find out someone had a history of mental issues and nothing was done? How many people are reluctant to take proper medication because they view the effects of the medication worse than what it trying to treat. We have a lot of people coming back with PTSD, we need to get better at this.

I remember OK and that was farm products (which some companies still sell at automated machines). IEDs, pipe bombs, propane canisters, Molotov cocktails are all capable of killing a lot people and are easier to build or acquire than guns.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#75

Post by [deleted] »

untog wrote: post #18
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.

frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are. Where exactly do I make that assumption? You'll notice that I didn't even call for a blanket ban on guns, just that, as a nation, we could actually sit down and have a serious talk about whether people should be able to own weapons like this one for private use: [EDIT: I regret posting the link to the rifle,…

[deleted]

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#76

Post by chimeracoder »

bstewartny wrote: post #21
sidcool wrote: post #10

And there should be no gun control....Bollocks.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

> Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

Yes, treating our schools like we treat our prisons is a great paradigm to adopt for our educational system.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#77

Post by purplelobster »

bstewartny wrote: post #21
sidcool wrote: post #10

And there should be no gun control....Bollocks.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

You make the logical fallacy that just because they CAN still get a gun, that it's equally likely that they will get a gun. It's not. Having to go through hoops to find a gun will result in fewer insane people having guns, it's that simple. It won't prevent all shootings, and certainly wouldn't work very well in the US, since you guys have been flooding the country with guns for a century. In other countries it works quite well though.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#78

Post by nwh »

grkballer44 wrote: post #39

Within a couple years this exact scenario will play out. A gunmen will talk in a crowded place loaded to the gills. Assault rifles, bullet proof vest, explosives hid around the building. He will pull out his gun and kill the poor unsuspecting first soul. After that initial shot someone with a concealed weapons permit is going to blow his brains out cutting his rampage short ( I truly hope the person who plays the her…

Then someone blows the old ladies brains out thinking that she is the shooter. Nice plan.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#79

Post by chimeracoder »

jacquesm wrote: post #56

The psychology behind the kind of people that could do a thing like this baffles me completely. Insanity doesn't begin to describe it. Parents should not have to worry about whether or not their children are safe in school. At the same time armed guards at school are not a solution either, then you might as well turn it into a mini prison. What a sad sad day. Even countries with gun control have instances like this (…

> This world could be so nice, why does it have to be such a crappy place?

Nice stuff happens. It just doesn't make (or sell) the news. But that doesn't mean the world isn't nice.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#80

Post by josephlord »

bstewartny wrote: post #21
sidcool wrote: post #10

And there should be no gun control....Bollocks.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

Actually it might in many cases be a knife that is used when guns are not easily obtainable. There has certainly been at least one case like that in the UK. Still horrific but very likely to be fewer people killed and injured.

Schools don't need armed guards. That is kind of ridiculous for every school and a person on a mass murder mission with the element of surprise is very likely to be able to take out a single armed guard before moving on to anybody else. Two or more armed guards is a massive expense especially for small schools. Plus if you put tens (hundreds?) of thousands of armed guards into schools across the country that is likely to bring its own problems too.

Absolutely locked down perimeters have their own problems and still don't help when someone is buzzed in on pretext - "I've got a package to deliver..."

Edit to add: Was very tempted to vote you down for idiocy/wrongness but managed to resist as this is HN and wrongness is not the proper criteria for downvotes.

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