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“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

blog.senko.net

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Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#131
post #110
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Dude. Writing correct code is the whole process. If you're defining coding without care for correctness, of course you can write it off as not the hard part.

“The best code is the code you didn’t have to write” - a wise coder

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#132
post #47
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with those customers. That's like saying "building a car is not hard, building a real car that you can use and that passes regulation is". IOW, writing code is hard in every reasonable context.

Absolutely there can be a bunch of hard things wrapped around easy things. When those things can't be separated neatly than it doesn't make sense to separate them such that we can call the easy parts easy (or even parts really).

That said, it's still reasonable to think that once (and only once) the hard part is done, then the easy part is easy. It would just be wrong to think that you can do the whole thing without having to do hard parts. I think the argument here is that with AI this is more possible—that the tasks are more separable. Even if it's the same one person doing the hard stuff and then passing what they learned to the AI to do the easy stuff.

Two reasons they might not separate well (there are others):

- If in a company's product development it's hard(er) to have one person doing H and another doing E, then you're generally going to have one person doing H and E. More or less, this means a person can only do E easily if they do H beforehand. So hard things are required no matter what.

- People come in whole persons. If people skilled/educated to do H tend to be the same people skilled/educated to do E (can be because of how programming is educated, but also can be because there aren't that many programmers), then you're always going to be plugging programmers who have both H and E into roles and it'll probably be more efficient to plug them into roles requiring both rather than just H or just E. You could, within that population, determine who is comparatively advantaged (and we do do this mildly with senior vs junior or with "architects"), but plugging a person into an E-only role is going to involve that person questioning what happened during the H part beforehand. In part because they're good enough at H to question it, but more importantly because they're implementing the H such that they're aware when their E might not be as easy as it could be.

Both of these seem like they might be less true now with AI (and also perhaps because there are more programmers).

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#133
post #72

I believe there are some programming jobs in which the code is absolutely the easier part. Not all of us work in signal processing, integrated systems or have to push upstream to Linux kernel because the company we work for really needs a memory allocation optimization for its data centers. Navigating customer requirements and building something that satisfies both market's needs and company strategy can be an incred…

> There is a reason that books like "the staff engineer's path" cover topics such as local maximums, communication, [...]

Why would they cover programming? That's what all the books on programming are for.

Also I see no need for signal processing to make programming a hard problem. Writing correct code is hard. Writing code that makes incorrect code easy to spot and hard to write is hard.

You can be great at local maximums, communication, establishing support for executing a plan or creating alignment on big efforts, and proceeded to still create a ball of mud. Bug ridden, hard to read, hard to debug.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#134
You seem to be misunderstanding the premise of the statement. Go write, "print 'foo';" and copy and paste that statement one hundred thousand times. Congratulations, you just wrote one hundred thousand lines of functioning code! Was that hard? No? Okay, so how is this different from other code? The difference is that it's easy to _understand_ how that code works, because it's the same behavior repeated over and over. So, writing code is easy, but understanding code is difficult! And, when we code with AI, undertanding is precisely the part that it can't handle, even though that's where almost all of the value is!

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#136
> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)?

There's probably a lot wrong with the "coding was never the hard part" take, but this quote right here shows that the author is not willing to engage with the actual idea that folks who say this are espousing. Because if the author was discussing these ideas on good faith, he'd know that the answer is obvious: there's much, much more to a software engineer's job than just coding, and that other stuff is very hard to do well, and people pay for that.

Again, I'm not saying the "coding was never the hard part" folks are right, but I really, really hate straw men.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#137
>If deciding what to build is the hard part, why aren't market researchers, usability experts and—hell, customer success—considered rockstars in a software company? If “understanding the customer” is harder, why are business analysts looked down on as pencil pushers?

Because they're not the ones deciding it, they just provide input for the Heads/VPs/managers who make the strategic decisions. And they are paid pretty well for this.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#138
post #110
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Dude. Writing correct code is the whole process. If you're defining coding without care for correctness, of course you can write it off as not the hard part.

The point of the OP in this case wasn't code that compiles, but code that does what the customer wants. If the customer orders an email client but really wants a chat application, coding a working email client is not "correct". And insisting that the customer ordered the wrong thing won't change the reality of the matter.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#139
It seems the author has misunderstood the point of the common narrative and has torn apart what’s essentially a strawman.

The degrees, the books, that’s not the supposedly easy part. That’s the HARD PART, and it’s actually the “what you build” thing. What you build is the code architecture, knowing how to conjure objects, methods, modules, lambdas out of thin air in a way that faithfully represents a real-world problem. Literally the shape of the resulting code. It’s not product or CS.

The easy part is supposed to be actually typing out the code, putting the methods together, remembering method names and syntax quirks.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#140
post #47
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with those customers. That's like saying "building a car is not hard, building a real car that you can use and that passes regulation is". IOW, writing code is hard in every reasonable context.

The reason people say "writing code isn't the hard part" is because the only thing an LLM saves effort on is typing code into the computer. You still have to know what the code should do, and you still have to review the code the LLM generated to make sure it is reasonable. In other words, you still have to do the hardest parts of your job, and the LLM only saves you effort on something which was no real effort to begin with. That is why they are an ineffective tool, because they are helping you with the bits you don't actually need help with.
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