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“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

blog.senko.net

101–110 of 562 posts

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#101
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

In my experience the only people who get paid "well" to just code up well defined JIRA tickets are new grads, and this is essentially a training period until they grow into leading complex and ambiguous projects independently. You can't hang out there more than a few years.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#102
Business has detested IT forever. It is basically considered blue collar work they felt held hostage to as it was 'brain' based instead of 'muscle' based, and it threathened to expose the grift of clueless "management" (not all is). They yried to placate with CTO, and l created tech diluted CIO and CISO titles for themselves, but the fear and loathing is as strong as ever.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#103
post #53
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with those customers. That's like saying "building a car is not hard, building a real car that you can use and that passes regulation is". IOW, writing code is hard in every reasonable context.

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Now add the time dimension - keeping code correct as the business and the people in it change. That's how I explain to people that LLMs will not replace us developers.

Most of the people who say LLMs will replace developers have never built and deployed a real app. I know someone working on an app that they were deploying and after "writing" thousands of lines of code with Codex, they needed help to deploy it despite getting pretty clear (IMO) instructions from the LLM. Later they were struggling to set up a test environment or add backups to the point that I was worried they might break production.

The few people who manage to write good quality production apps with AI are developers whether they like it or not and that number isn't high enough to obsolete existing developers.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many programmers operate under that kind of regulatory and operational constraint regime? I think most don’t. (In interesting ways this is programming’s greatest boon and curse: if we treated it more like building bridges or cars, the world would be a very different place.)

Touch billing, touch medical data, be at a B2B company that needs to catch all the ISOs to have a chance to land bigger contracts. I don't think it's uncommon.

[deleted]

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#105
To some degree the defense just popped up because it’s part of the AI effect, at least in my opinion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect

As computing systems become increasingly capable and encroach in our territory that distinguishes us and lead to our success as a species, intelligence (whatever that is or isn’t), we redefine the problem and handwave away the new capabilities.

It’s getting increasingly more difficult to do that in knowledge domains with current frontier agentic systems. They’re not AGI, but they start to make it increasingly difficult to move the goal posts for many people’s comfort.

We really need a lot more philosophers, sociologists, and frankly economists working on this problem: in an era where physical needs were mechanized away and increasingly aspects of the knowledge economy are shifting away, what does it look like in modernity? How do we sustain or adapt our current economic models? What new models may be needed? Do we need to continue to enforce this whole work to survive in an environment where much work is disappearing or at the very least shifting around.

No, we’re not there yet. You still need experts to guide things around, but it’s becoming increasingly easier to do more in this space with less humans. That’s not a trivial change in the US where we put most our eggs in this whole knowledge economy basket.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#106
Great article. Nice pragmatic and cool-head take on what is going on. Thank you for posting this.

Side note: I so forgot about the "Don't make me think" book! Thanks for reminding this exists. I submit this should be part of "Software Development 101", right there alongside SICP.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#108
I don't think I've heard a lot of people say "code was never the hard part". I have heard "Code was never the bottleneck", which is a different thing altogether and is objectively true at my company. The bottlenecks were and still are integrations, QA, requirements refinement, coordination, etc.

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#109
This is the kind of thing where everyone just talks past each other because "coding" can refer to a ton of different things. I think we've all had the experience of having to write large mechanical boilerplate or refractors which was definitely highly automatable coding. I think we've also all has the experience of being utterly dismayed at how hard it is to write certain logic, especially with LLM "assistance". I've spent the last couple days marveling at how consistently fable introduces race conditions into a complex state machine I'm maintaining. Coding can be hard, or easy sometimes

Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers

#110
post #9

> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…

> Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is.

Dude.

Writing correct code is the whole process. If you're defining coding without care for correctness, of course you can write it off as not the hard part.

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