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Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

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Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#41

Post by mnicole »

hyperbovine wrote: post #11
untog wrote: post #4

I can't wait until the part where we all don't talk about gun control and carry on as usual. Sigh. EDIT: I see my post is being downvoted. I know that it may come across as insensitive to immediately leap to the gun control debate, but frankly I'm more angry than upset by this news. How many times does it have to happen? We have a good 48 hours of emotional outpouring and then everyone forgets it ever happened.

I came here to say exactly the same thing. Upvote from me. Second mass shooting of the week. "Guns don't kill people, ..."? Please.

I've seen a lot of confusion about the numbers in the Clackamas (Portland suburb) mall shooting if that's the other one you're referring to. Not sure if it would be considered "mass" even though it was done in a food court, as it was 2 dead besides the gunman, with a third in serious condition but expected to recover. Not negating the significance of it at all or anything, but the shooter stole the gun from someone who was licensed to have it, so that's another issue to address entirely.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#42

Post by marknutter »

untog wrote: post #18
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.

frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are. Where exactly do I make that assumption? You'll notice that I didn't even call for a blanket ban on guns, just that, as a nation, we could actually sit down and have a serious talk about whether people should be able to own weapons like this one for private use: [EDIT: I regret posting the link to the rifle,…

"He was wearing all black and was carrying two 9mm handguns" - http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-26-dead-...

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#43

Post by bcoates »

untog wrote: post #9
dmm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? That's usually the first thing people talk about when they hear about a shooting. There is always lots of talk. However, it's a divisive issue that many people feel strongly about and it's a constitutional issue.

Well, I mean talk seriously . Even in the presidential debates, both candidates ran away from a serious discussion on the topic. I know it's divisive, I know people feel strongly about it, but it appears that no politician is interested in starting a real debate.

Politicians talking about a topic is not the cause of political change, it's the result of one. There is currently a public consensus against your preferred policy position to the extent that it's disadvantageous for politicians to promote themselves with it. Changing that consensus won't lead to victory on its own, but it's a necessary precondition.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#44

Post by potatolicious »

bstewartny wrote: post #21
sidcool wrote: post #10

And there should be no gun control....Bollocks.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

> "Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO."

Then they will find some other means to do their thing. School buses? Malls? Day cares? The list is endless. Not to mention school shootings are far from the only form of mass murder - movie theaters recently too.

Unless you are ready to sign up for a fortified, bunkered America in all facets, "security" is not a solution to this problem. The vulnerable surface area is all public spaces.

I'd be much, much more concerned about the state of mental health care in this country. No one in their right mind goes and shoots children, nor a theater full of movie-goers - these aren't crimes of opportunity, they are indicative of severe mental disturbance.

Inevitably when tragedies like this come up we get into a big fight about gun control and then forget it ever happened. So rarely do we see any real discussion about preventing someone from seeking out the gun in the first place.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#46

Post by tomasien »

pg wrote: post #19
ColinWright wrote: post #8

From http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. Yes, this is important, yes, it's newsworthy. No, it's not "Hacker News". It's all over the news, and there's nothing specific about hacking, or start-ups. It's not even of "deep interest" in any real sense. It's tragedy, pure and simple, and then it becomes pol…

Note those words most and probably.

I hear you, and I'm not going to flag this because it just seems like if people want to talk about it they should talk about it. It's just that noteworthy. But it just seems like it's nice to have a place to focus back on your work and you craft.

There is something to be learned from what the HN crowd's thoughts are on this though, but I'm conflicted.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#47

Post by bstewartny »

lostlogin wrote: post #31
bstewartny wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gun control cant and wont solve these problems. These are societal problems. Anyone insane and evil enough to kill children would get guns on the black market or use some other weapon such as a bomb. Schools need to able to have armed guards and better locked/secured entries IMO.

Then why is this problem more prevalent in America? I know this sounds like baiting, it isn't. Surely gun laws come into it, even if they aren't the root cause (they aren't IMHO).

I don't know. Is it in fact more prevalent in America? I don't know just asking. It is a societal and cultural problem IMO.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#48

Post by gnu8 »

debacle wrote: post #29
washedup wrote: post #3

A father of one of the children's... how does our society produce individuals like this? I know there are probably dozens of answers... edit: just to be clear, I am not a father of one of the children. I was told the shooter was a father of one of the children at the school. Not sure if that is correct.

Very many people suffer from undiagnosed mental illness. An even larger amount just go way off the deep end.

Many who suffer diagnosed mental illnesses roam the streets because we don't care for them. Our mental healthcare system is that of a third world country.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#49

Post by bigdubs »

malkia wrote: post #12

Horrible news. Also in China someone this morning stabbed 22 children at elementary school - wtf... http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/12/14/man-stabs-...

This is an incredibly touchy subject, but something that I always come back to when tragedies like this happen is that if a disturbed person wants to hurt people, guns only make it easier.

What does this mean in practice? It can both be an argument for gun control and an argument against. I have no idea where this really comes down. I just know that there are disturbed people in the world, and we need to take a step back and figure out how to prevent them from causing damage in the first place.

Re: Mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

#50

Post by stephengillie »

untog wrote: post #18
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say the same thing when people in oppressive regimes are silenced with no recourse because the government has no reason to fear it's own citizens. Sigh. I did not downvote your post, but frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are.

frankly I'm angry that you just assume everyone who is pro-2nd amendment just isn't as enlightened as you are. Where exactly do I make that assumption? You'll notice that I didn't even call for a blanket ban on guns, just that, as a nation, we could actually sit down and have a serious talk about whether people should be able to own weapons like this one for private use: [EDIT: I regret posting the link to the rifle,…

The .223 is common. The accessories make that gun look a lot more impressive. And you can't tell a gun's lethality just by looking at it -- the difference between semi-auto and full auto is just a cut-firing-pin apart on some guns, so there's no way to tell from outside the weapon.
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