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Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

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31–40 of 169 posts

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#31
Why is everyone in this thread comparing this to a University

But yeah, this is a good step.

Homework is also becoming obsolete at this point. If they can't do it with pen and paper in class, there's no reliable way to evaluate work anymore.

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#32
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never pay to have you as a teacher, I'm sorry. Maybe your move makes a sense for the reputation of your university's degree, but as a student willing to pay to learn remotely, I'd not accept to be treated like children.

Regular graded assignments is the "treated like children" version. The adult treatment is that you can come to class if you want, you can do the assignments if you want, but if not, that's fine too. There is one test at the end, and it's your responsibility to prepare for it as you want. You manage your own time, we offer consultation, lectures, assignments, tutorials etc. but you can reject all of this and learn the…

The problem is the vicious feedback nowadays of online student evaluations of professors. Professors that are rigorous get complaints and low rankings, kids don't sign up for their sections etc. Kids (parents) pay the administration and the administration wants to keep the customer happy. The only real answer are standardized exams (such as licensure exams) which are beyond parent pocketbook capture.

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#33
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of course, woe betide those with social phobias I can see this being a problem in the US when it comes to "accommodations" in general. Students with an ADHD diagnosis can claim it causes just about any difficulty and get accommodations for it. The local (top ranked, but everyone's seen all the stories coming out of the Ivies...) college here gives students with ADHD double time on exams and has them take it in a spe…

as someone with ADHD who always finished exams first or was the designated spokesperson for group presentations... I have no idea why you'd want to be taking a test a second longer than you already have to. Either you know the material or you don't, anything taking a lot of time is borderline stuff where you're scrapping for points you might not deserve in the first place lol

> I have no idea why you'd want to be taking a test a second longer than you already have to.

After I got treated, I understand why.

Too look for mistakes. Now I don't understand why people don't take the maximum alloted time

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's part of the issue with for profit education, if the student pays significant money for tuition, is he a customer or a student?

"The student is the customer" is a stupid metaphor that only caught on because a lot of people would rather just bring in dollars than worry about "are we actually teaching anything?"

It's not a metaphor. They are literally the customer.

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#37
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of course, woe betide those with social phobias I can see this being a problem in the US when it comes to "accommodations" in general. Students with an ADHD diagnosis can claim it causes just about any difficulty and get accommodations for it. The local (top ranked, but everyone's seen all the stories coming out of the Ivies...) college here gives students with ADHD double time on exams and has them take it in a spe…

as someone with ADHD who always finished exams first or was the designated spokesperson for group presentations... I have no idea why you'd want to be taking a test a second longer than you already have to. Either you know the material or you don't, anything taking a lot of time is borderline stuff where you're scrapping for points you might not deserve in the first place lol

Absolutely not saying this is even the most common case but: people “without ADHD” but with a diagnosis can use the extra time effectively.

It is most clear when there is some kind of problem solving involved. An extra 30 min to figure out the trick or plan a detailed approach is a real benefit.

The other case is where there’s some missing knowledge but with a bunch of extra effort you can figure out how to do it. That would be something like re-constructing a self-balancing binary tree from some half-remembered lecture notes.

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#38
I wish we were doing this in the US even before AI was an issue. I suspect it would reorient students to their work in some pretty cool ways. I mean, it might feel like torture for some and maybe that’s not so much a bad thing. I’m sure I’m not thinking of some downsides to this too, but it seems like such a great counter against “factory” schooling. Of course, this could be a lot more work for faculty and could be hard to keep up with a huge student population. Again, maybe a feature more than a bug.

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#39
post #8

Denmark is a very small country and what works there doesn’t necessarily work at the scale of the US or China.

Would it work in Wisconsin, Minnesota, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Oklahoma, Connecticut, Utah, Nevada, Iowa, Puerto Rico, Arkensas, Kansas, Mississippi, New Mexico, Idaho, Nebraska, West Virginia, Hawaii, New Hampshire, Maine, Montana, Rhode Island, Delaware, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, DC, Vermont or Wyoming?

They all have a lower population than Denmark.

All but six states (CA, TX, FL, NY, PA, IL) have less than double the population of Denmark.

Re: Denmark Requires Oral Defenses for Students' Written Work to Counter AI Cheating

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? This is such a thought terminating statement. No actual reason.

Tell me you're not a programmer w/o telling me. What works at scale can be fundamentally different than what works in a small startup (Denmark).

If in person exams are seemingly impossible in US due to scale, we have to conclude that before internet US had no education?
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