> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…
>Writing code is not hard. Writing code has a minimum IQ requirement; a significant fraction of the population will essentially never be able to code by themselves. That labor supply limitation is what's kept programmer salaries relatively high.
“Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
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Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#42LLMs are the invention of the loom. Code is being industrialized. Yes, there always will be artisanal weavers and a smaller number of them get paid a lot more money to do this by people who can afford it. Everyone else either started operating a loom or did something else. Automated looms are now making mass amounts of textiles but the artisans are no longer doing the physical act of weaving. The artisans come up wit…
Easy on the cocaine. There are no credible AI code bases on GitHub.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#43I agree, the whole 'developers don't code' AI defense was pretty ridiculous. I also concur that development is going to get a lot harder. Anyone that has successfully used AI coding tools knows that you can get massive productivity increases but now I have to figure out how to get a bunch of hyper active child like coding entities with memory deficiencies to build stuff without going off the rail and introducing mass…
Development is essentially becoming management.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#44Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#45https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr...
Don’t call yourself a programmer: “Programmer” sounds like “anomalously high-cost peon who types some mumbo-jumbo into some other mumbo-jumbo.” If you call yourself a programmer, someone is already working on a way to get you fired. You know Salesforce, widely perceived among engineers to be a Software as a Services company? Their motto and sales point is “No Software”, which conveys to their actual customers “You know those programmers you have working on your internal systems? If you used Salesforce, you could fire half of them and pocket part of the difference in your bonus.” (There’s nothing wrong with this, by the way. You’re in the business of unemploying people. If you think that is unfair, go back to school and study something that doesn’t matter.)Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#46Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#47> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…
That's like saying "building a car is not hard, building a real car that you can use and that passes regulation is".
IOW, writing code is hard in every reasonable context.
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Writing code is not hard. Writing code has a minimum IQ requirement; a significant fraction of the population will essentially never be able to code by themselves. That labor supply limitation is what's kept programmer salaries relatively high.
Writing code doesn't have a notably higher (if at all higher, vs lower!) IQ requirement compared to some of the basic components of EE or MechE work. Programmer salaries have been driven up by the ability to write-once-sell-globally and the dramatic profit margin difference between that and, say, producing chips where there's a much higher fixed cost due to the need for more real material, tooling, etc. Many of those…
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#49> If coding is easy, how come programmers were in high demand, and have demanded large salaries for years (even before ZIRP)? Because programmers have generally been forced to wear additional, invisible hats that are essential to making the code happen in the first place. Writing code is not hard. Writing correct code is. Knowing what is correct in a setting with paying customers generally involves interacting with t…
That doesn’t describe any devs I know, especially not in the old days. Interrogating customers and bringing back requirements was the job of management (who got big salaries, too.)
Re: “Code was never the hard part” is an insult to all programmers
#50I agree, the whole 'developers don't code' AI defense was pretty ridiculous. I also concur that development is going to get a lot harder. Anyone that has successfully used AI coding tools knows that you can get massive productivity increases but now I have to figure out how to get a bunch of hyper active child like coding entities with memory deficiencies to build stuff without going off the rail and introducing mass…
>get a bunch of hyper active child like coding entities with memory deficiencies to build stuff without going off the rail and introducing massive security problems or building something completely mismatched to the requirements Development is essentially becoming management.
Even with wrangling agents, you’re really just making them right the “correct code”. Something EMs don’t do, or at least the good ones don’t do with their ICs.