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The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

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Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#211

Post by potsandpans »

GJim wrote: post #28
lukeify wrote: post #6

At this point I’m not sure what to do about it. I already live a low-ish carbon life. I barely ever fly. Only drive when I need to. Try and use items that are non-plastic where feasible. I don’t buy extra clothes. It’s at the point where I wish it were solvable, but I don’t believe it is, so I can’t afford to think about it. Maybe people better than me can, and good luck to them.

Don't have a pet cat or dog. Owning an unnecessary carnivorous animal is rather bad news from a CO2 perspective. A dog can be responsible for higher CO2 emissions than a car. https://impact.ed.ac.uk/research/climate-environmental-crisi... https://www.zerosmart.co.uk/post/the-average-carbon-footprin... (Que outrage from pet owners and people suggesting I'm a crazy vegan.... I'm most certainly not vegan or veggie!)

Ah, uk research institutions. The paragon of austerity for the common man. How are we going to fix the climate crises? Not a sensible carbon policy and mandates on international corporations and nation states[1][2][3][4].

No, just stop having pets.

I don't think you're a crazy vegan, and I'm not outraged. But your proposal is ridicules.

1 - https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10...

2 - https://influencemap.org/briefing/Carbon-Majors-2024-Data- Update-35466

3 - https://www.theenergymix.com/17-of-worlds-20-biggest-carbon-...

4 - https://www.rinnovabili.net/environment/pollution/world-co2-...

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#212

Post by joquarky »

whatifitoldyou wrote: post #50

I think us people do not have the capacity as societies to effectively anticipate and solve problems that we can see approaching but have not become catastrophic yet. We always act shortsightedly and ..hope for the best. Most of the people will just not vote/support anything that might bring them some minuscule pain. Even if we know by logic that the problem is coming, we tend to follow whomever will tell us that it'…

The Y2k bug.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#213

Post by mnewme »

qsera wrote: post #198
mnewme wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should stop thinking about sides. There are no sides. There are different opinions and facts

Yea, the other guy also want me to stop thinking...

Actually the reverse is true. I would encourage you to think more and actually read and understand what 99% of science says since 50 years and why so many people come to the same results

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#214

Post by defrost »

qsera wrote: post #198
mnewme wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should stop thinking about sides. There are no sides. There are different opinions and facts

Yea, the other guy also want me to stop thinking...

Have you read the IPCC report? Do you have any kind of physics education and experience in real world thermodynamics at scale?

Have you read, for example, Thermal Equilibrium of the Atmosphere with a Given Distribution of Relative Humidity - Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences Volume 24 Issue 3 (1967) - https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atsc/24/3/1520-04...

Think away, by all means, but at least make it focused and directed and look beyond the shallow climate denial sites such as WUWT, JoNova, et al.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#215

Post by qsera »

mnewme wrote: post #159
qsera wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it is as if some people can still think on their own...

Thinking for yourself doesn’t mean rejecting science and 50 years of research in an area where there’s a rare 99% consensus among scientists (check: Lynas et al., Environmental Research Letters), just because some guys on social media said so.

> rare 99% consensus among scientists

Any groups of humans can easily reach "consensus" that are wrong.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#216

Post by qsera »

defrost wrote: post #214
qsera wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, the other guy also want me to stop thinking...

Have you read the IPCC report? Do you have any kind of physics education and experience in real world thermodynamics at scale? Have you read, for example, Thermal Equilibrium of the Atmosphere with a Given Distribution of Relative Humidity - Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences Volume 24 Issue 3 (1967) - https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atsc/24/3/1520-04... Think away, by all means, but at least make it focu…

>Have you read the IPCC report? Do you have any kind of physics education and experience in real world thermodynamics at scale?

No and no, but I find it alarming when even trivial questions regarding reliability of methods used to estimate past temperatures are met with ridicule and appeal to authority...

And you are not doing much better. Instead of being curious and asking me what I actually think, or why I think it, you start throwing me research. You also assume that everyone who claims "to think" are coming from some propaganda resource. It is actually the shallow claims from the "convinced" that trigger my skepticism.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#217

Post by defrost »

qsera wrote: post #216
defrost wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the IPCC report? Do you have any kind of physics education and experience in real world thermodynamics at scale? Have you read, for example, Thermal Equilibrium of the Atmosphere with a Given Distribution of Relative Humidity - Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences Volume 24 Issue 3 (1967) - https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atsc/24/3/1520-04... Think away, by all means, but at least make it focu…

>Have you read the IPCC report? Do you have any kind of physics education and experience in real world thermodynamics at scale? No and no, but I find it alarming when even trivial questions regarding reliability of methods used to estimate past temperatures are met with ridicule and appeal to authority... And you are not doing much better. Instead of being curious and asking me what I actually think, or why I think i…

It's not about the past temperatures though, is it?

It's about the increasing insulation factor of the atmosphere (unquestionably caused by human fossil fuel extraction) that is trapping more heat.

> you start throwing me research.

That backs that point about insulation.

> Instead of being curious and asking me what I actually think

You either believe in and understand gravity modelling or you don't, either way you fall, clocks advance at different in different frames, etc. A Foucault pendulum swings in a plane independent of the earth rotation regardless of what any human thinks. The starting point for understanding the claims about climate are rooted in physics.

Hence the need to ask people about their foundational knowledge.

> You also assume that everyone who claims "to think" are coming from some propaganda resource.

No, I tend to believe they haven't thought the basic high school level thermodynamics through.

> It is actually the shallow claims from the "convinced"

I worked through via experiments and a few decades in exploration geophysics myself.

Worth a mention that most of the solid data comes not from "the convinced" or eco warrior hippies, it comes from cold war atomic and anti submarine research, mineral and energy exploration, etc.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#218

Post by robocat »

inigyou wrote: post #3
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

It's quite striking to note how media coverage of climate change and pollution have gone down so much. I remember in the 90's it was very much in the popular mileu. What's more we are living through an actual green revolution. Solar power and batteries have never been so cheap - and still promising to get cheaper and better with sodium ion batteries.

In the 90s it was something to deal with later. Now that it's something to deal with right now, of course they won't cover it. In a few decades they'll cover it again, but only to say how it's too late now. Another factor is that rich oil and gas people figured out they could just buy the media.

That's the 4 stage strategy: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QYHwgQLvjqs

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#219

Post by qsera »

defrost wrote: post #217
qsera wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Have you read the IPCC report? Do you have any kind of physics education and experience in real world thermodynamics at scale? No and no, but I find it alarming when even trivial questions regarding reliability of methods used to estimate past temperatures are met with ridicule and appeal to authority... And you are not doing much better. Instead of being curious and asking me what I actually think, or why I think i…

It's not about the past temperatures though, is it? It's about the increasing insulation factor of the atmosphere (unquestionably caused by human fossil fuel extraction) that is trapping more heat. > you start throwing me research. That backs that point about insulation. > Instead of being curious and asking me what I actually think You either believe in and understand gravity modelling or you don't, either way you f…

>It's not about the past temperatures though, is it?

The "crisis" is about "unprecedented rise in temperature", right? So that implies past temperatures.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#220

Post by mnewme »

qsera wrote: post #219
defrost wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the past temperatures though, is it? It's about the increasing insulation factor of the atmosphere (unquestionably caused by human fossil fuel extraction) that is trapping more heat. > you start throwing me research. That backs that point about insulation. > Instead of being curious and asking me what I actually think You either believe in and understand gravity modelling or you don't, either way you f…

>It's not about the past temperatures though, is it? The "crisis" is about "unprecedented rise in temperature", right? So that implies past temperatures.

Not only, also about more extreme weather changes happen regularly and for example in Austria we had now the hottest sommer to be ever recorded.
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