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What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

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Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#931

Post by dec0dedab0de »

kayamon wrote: post #467
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been in tech for the tech for over 20 years now, heck over 30 years as a hobbyist. I have lost almost all interest in it these days. It feels increasingly meaningless, and actively harmful. I know it is my own fault for neglecting my health and relationships, but I can't help but feel this career makes the most important things more difficult.

We still live in the eternal september.

I didn't use the internet until 93, and didn't own a modem until Christmas of 94. I'm part of eternal September, but I always identified with the elders of the internet.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#932

Post by THX1137 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #896
THX1137 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forcing me to go out every day and talk to human beings face to face, even just little things like making sure I was showered and dressed every day This part is strange to me. I've worked from home for about 10 years and I've never once had an issue with twice-daily showering, meeting people face-to-face, going out for coffee, going outdoors, going to the gym, etc. The fact I can just go sit in a park, on a hiking…

I am very jealous of you.

I'm lucky that I can do something that aligns with how I like to live and work. I guess my question to you is why you don't seek to return to the office yourself? I might not understand the attraction of the commute but "different strokes for different folks" is like a bedrock of western society.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#933

Post by dec0dedab0de »

miyoji wrote: post #858
cheschire wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the remote thing before Covid and rejected it for many of the same reasons. Then Covid happened and so many people got to experience it and loved it. But I still hated it while I was forced to. Every time I told anyone that I personally didn’t like working from home, and was excited about the return to office that would inevitably come, I got SHOUTED at. Absolutely flayed for not being 110% in support of this t…

Commutes are uncompensated labor, so you're advocating for a pay decrease for both yourself and your coworkers. Pay me for my commute and I'll gladly work from wherever you like, just recognize that I would get more done if you weren't paying me to travel to and from work. If you don't pay me for the time I spend commuting, you aren't interested in paying the total cost of employing me and you can kindly go fuck off.

I'm not paying anyone to do anything, please don't tell me to fuck off for expressing my personal experience.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#934

Post by THX1137 »

csomar wrote: post #610
THX1137 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forcing me to go out every day and talk to human beings face to face, even just little things like making sure I was showered and dressed every day This part is strange to me. I've worked from home for about 10 years and I've never once had an issue with twice-daily showering, meeting people face-to-face, going out for coffee, going outdoors, going to the gym, etc. The fact I can just go sit in a park, on a hiking…

The previous poster doesn’t realize he is part of the problem. He wants everyone to go back to the office so that he can see people face to face again and have the social pressure to wash himself. Makes you wonder why no one wants to be his friend? If you are ever in a situation where you are alone and no person works for you, realize you are most likely the problem. It took me a while to figure it out and it’s hard…

The poster didn't say they want everyone to go back to the office, they said they preferred to work in the office. Maybe cool off before bashing

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#935

Post by wongarsu »

estearum wrote: post #797
Animats wrote: post #224

Addressing the question in the title, "What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers", look at what happened to printers. That was a good skilled trade for centuries. Then it just went away. Phototypesetting took the high volume end. Desktop publishing took the low end. Computer-controlled presses took press operators. And then the newspaper business died. I've heard homeless former printers…

Surprised no one has made the extremely obvious observation that it took literal centuries for printing technology to eliminate the trade of printers, which could not have possibly have employed more than 0.01% of people at its peak. Compared to the potential obsolescence of 40% to 60% of the US workforce over the course of 10 - 20 years? You can argue about whether the obsolescence is real or not, but if it is , the…

If printing technology took centuries to eliminate the trade of printers, by the same logic computers took about 80 years to eliminate a large chunk of knowledge workers (and that's just counting until today, we might still be a couple years off)

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#936

Post by dec0dedab0de »

miyoji wrote: post #891
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commutes can also be forced meditation, exercise, and exposure to sunlight and fresh air. If you don't naturally prioritize those things, the impact of missing them will sneak up on you.

Meditation is impossible when navigating the stress of traffic. Driving isn't exercise. Sunlight filtered through car windows doesn't provide vitamin D. Fresh air doesn't exist on a highway filled with brake dust and car exhaust. Walking to work would be nice and would provide those benefits, but the vast majority of workers don't have that luxury.

Meditation is impossible when navigating the stress of traffic. Driving isn't exercise.

I was referring to riding public transportation, then walking through the city to the office. I agree that driving doesn't meet the criteria, but commuting != driving.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#938

Post by adrianN »

estearum wrote: post #867
bushbaba wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt unemployment can even raise to 40% before the government and billionaire class is overthrown. The French Revolution was not an isolated event

And then what? Suddenly everyone gets paid for doing nothing of added value? We ban AI and similar ultra-high leverage technologies?

Well somebody is still making things and presumably selling them. So you could tax them and redistribute the money

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#939

Post by dec0dedab0de »

Dusseldorf wrote: post #362
cheschire wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the remote thing before Covid and rejected it for many of the same reasons. Then Covid happened and so many people got to experience it and loved it. But I still hated it while I was forced to. Every time I told anyone that I personally didn’t like working from home, and was excited about the return to office that would inevitably come, I got SHOUTED at. Absolutely flayed for not being 110% in support of this t…

I think the reason people get angry about it is that it feels like an asymmetric ask. It feels a bit like saying "everyone needs to come I to the office because I like there to be people in the office, regardless of whether that's what they want." (not saying that's what you're saying here, just trying to shine some light on how it may be perceived)

Oh I get it, I was an early adopter and advocate for working from home. Hell, it was my job to write code to help tens of thousands of people work from home when the pandemic started. I gladly did it, assuming they would all enjoy it as much as I did at the time. But I was only 6 years into it at that point, it was barely a walk in the park.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#940

Post by listenallyall »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #827
listenallyall wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about affording the lifestyle isnt entirely incorrect, but it is skewed by what you choose to include vs ignore. Owning a house? Indeed, grandfather probably had it easier. More space per person in the primary residence? Grandson wins, most likely. Restaurant meals vs home cooked, international travel, ubiquitous air conditioning, threat of being drafted into the military (and actually being deployed!), ex…

The fact that you listed "restaurant meals" and "number of sexual partners" as a plus tells me everything I need to know here. Yes, the people who like living in the Pleasuredome of cheap and fast thrills have it better these days. The rare few who want a stable, thoughtful life with a lifelong partner far away from the racket? Well...

Options are generally a good thing, even if you dont explore them all. Much respect if you found one person and its just the two of you to the grave. But, you cant ignore the fact that women fought for years for sexual freedom, and that most people of both sexes prefer to be able to date and search for a long-term partner rather than be arranged, or to be pressured by parents, church or community to marry the first person they had sex with.

Secondly, you can't invalidate a list of net positives like longer life expectancy by objecting to one of the things on that list.

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