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DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

deepmind.google

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Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#91

Maybe was this that was the last drop for Sundar. Demis: "I have a new amazing breakthrough" Sundar: "Great! We really need a answer to Sol and Fable" Demis: "They are completely owned in typhoon forecasting"

Ironically typhoon forecasting, at this moment, is more valuable. These predictions are matters of life, death, and billions of dollars in damage.

by giving it away they capture none of the value except for some PR.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#92
post #84

Everything in AI seems to be focused on LLMs lately. But in my opinion, powerful problem-specific models like this are even more interesting. The SOTA AI models used in weather forecasting are already outperforming the classic NWP models while being orders of magnitude more efficient (inference). Most are based on multi scale (hierarchical) Graph Neural Networks, an architecture which is not often talked about. The o…

Is there any website publishing these forecasts? I imagine NWS/NOAA isn’t doing anything different yet on their public websites.

Yes. AIFS directly by ECMWF and AIGEFS by NOAA. Every vibecoded weather app these days has them. Google those terms you’ll find them.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#93
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any website publishing these forecasts? I imagine NWS/NOAA isn’t doing anything different yet on their public websites.

Yes. AIFS directly by ECMWF and AIGEFS by NOAA. Every vibecoded weather app these days has them. Google those terms you’ll find them.

Anything more daily human friendly/consumable?

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#94
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can board up a helluva lot more stuff in a week than in two days. Crucially, you can move more of the most expensive stuff out of the storm surge zone, which is where the biggest damage happens and try to flood proof more of the things which can’t be moved.

> You can board up a helluva lot more stuff in a week than in two days TFA says they might be able to predict one extra day ahead (three days instead of two). No prediction system will ever give you a week's notice on a typhoon.

Actually it doesn't even say that - they claim to have the same "accuracy" at 3 days that older methods have at 2 days. What does that actually get you? Were the older models so much less accurate at 3 days (compared to 2) that it prevented evacuation of key areas? Looking at the paper, it doesn't really seem like this can be answered yet because there's not enough data over a long enough time.

Keep in mind, DeepMind has a very well documented history of releasing enormously hyped up PR pieces with grandiose claims that are never backed up in real world usage, or are simply lies.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#95

Everything in AI seems to be focused on LLMs lately. But in my opinion, powerful problem-specific models like this are even more interesting. The SOTA AI models used in weather forecasting are already outperforming the classic NWP models while being orders of magnitude more efficient (inference). Most are based on multi scale (hierarchical) Graph Neural Networks, an architecture which is not often talked about. The o…

You say this as if you don't need he MWP models to train the AI models? The accuracy of the AI Prediction depends entirely on the quality of the training dataset...

A more interesting question is...does differential equations based models like mamba/state space models perform better on this sort of physics problem than pure transformer LLMs?

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically typhoon forecasting, at this moment, is more valuable. These predictions are matters of life, death, and billions of dollars in damage.

I know this is uncharitable and I am wrong but I am having trouble coming up with concrete scenarios where you die with 2 days notice but survive with 3. I am nonethless a believer that more accurate forecasting has value.

It's not uncharitable, because the system doesn't actually claim to give you an extra day of notice. It would be more accurate to say: "the model can reach a given level of forecast accuracy roughly a day farther in advance". So your question becomes: are there scenarios where I am 80% sure this is a Cat 5 hurricane 3 days before, where I would die if I was only 65% sure it was Cat 5 on that same day? The answer is - probably not, because even in the example used in the PR article, the NHC was already issuing strong early guidance 5 days before landfall.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#97
post #82

on one side, deepmind makes a lot of advancement in science related application. but, on the commercial side, they struggle to compete with other major LLM providers.

which for google shareholders is pretty bad. we don't get anything from them releasing this.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#98

And this is why GDM has to go. It's crazy that when Google is struggling so badly that efforts like this that have no path to revenue at all were funded. GDM management really thought that they were some kind of charity. UNREAL.

i feel you. as a google shareholder i am disappointed too.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you that anyone who touches numerical simulations of any kind (physicists, engineers, chemists, biophysicts...etc) has tried their hand at ML based surrogate models in the last 5 years, so it's not like they aren't being tested. From my experience, they aren't very robust. Weather modeling is actually one of the very few areas where it seems to work half decently.

Why does it work for weather at all? Is there something that the mathematical models are over-simulating? Is weather easier to predict than we thought? Just curious what the intuition is to regarding the success of ML weather modelling...

There is just A LOT of data available- usually an order of magnitude more than in any other related problem.

And general weather forecasts are not that hard - we have semi useful forecasts for more than 50 years. It’s when you want to do something special: long range, nowcasting of convective storm, other extreme weather etc. that is hard. And even then it’s as much a problem of input data accuracy than the models themselves.

Re: DeepMind's WeatherNext model achieves breakthrough forecasting cyclones

#100

And this is why GDM has to go. It's crazy that when Google is struggling so badly that efforts like this that have no path to revenue at all were funded. GDM management really thought that they were some kind of charity. UNREAL.

Are you being sarcastic? Even if “Google is struggling so badly” (which it really is not - the narrative will flip again at some point), these efforts will have a lasting impact on the world. Not everything good is about bringing in revenue.

shareholders are pretty unhappy about demis. think about alphafold. huge investments from the company, tens of billions. at a critical time. and absolutely 0 revenue. it got demis a nobel though. as a shareholder you'd be unhappy too.
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