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No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

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Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#61

Post by [deleted] »

jubilanti wrote: post #49
rdbl27 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that these same people can't tell whether it was authored by a human or an AI without a seperate disclosure is strong evidence that human authorship as such is not what they value at all.

> The fact that these same people can't tell whether it was authored by a human or an AI without a seperate disclosure is strong evidence that human authorship as such is not what they value at all. By that logic, the fact that (some) people can't tell between gold and fool's gold is strong evidence that gold was not what they value at all. Or: the fact that (some) people can't tell between food that is marketed to t…

[deleted]

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#62

Post by [deleted] »

rdbl27 wrote: post #26
tsimionescu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because code is utilitarian, it is only valued for what it does, while art is not utilitarian - it is valued for subjective human reasons, which, for many people, include human authorship. It's the same reason people build their games out of code libraries, but generally design bespoke art for it (with some exceptions).

The fact that these same people can't tell whether it was authored by a human or an AI without a seperate disclosure is strong evidence that human authorship as such is not what they value at all.

[deleted]

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#63

Post by llm_nerd »

picofarad wrote: post #43
llm_nerd wrote: post #25

Interesting read, but this sort of framing is so common and self-deluding- > At the same time, gaming platforms like Steam—which indie and double-A games once depended on for discovery—have been flooded with low-quality dreck. According to the AI Transparency Index, more than 18,000 games on Steam now feature AI usage disclosures. “User trust in platform stores as a curatorial layer has been all but erased,” says Nor…

If someone makes a machine that produces CO2 in great quantities, I dont think pointing out that people have been exhaling for millennia is a reason to accept the machine.

A more apt analogy is trying to pin global warming on e-scooters. I mean, look at all the e-scooters. And man, they sure are annoying, and e-scooters also use electricity which is sometimes created by non-renewables, ergo ipso facto sum.

Using an AI disclosure count as an indication of anything is already laughably stupid, but just hand waving it as meaningful is basically playing on the stupidity of the audience, and look, it works on some...

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#64

Post by HeavyStorm »

tsimionescu wrote: post #23
galangalalgol wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is using it for code more acceptable than for art? I can't imagine we aren't already seeing tons of both in indie games. Maybe aaa too? Is there any ramification for leaving off the disclosure, or adding one? Personally if the gameplay is good I kind of don't care if it used lots of ai.

Because code is utilitarian, it is only valued for what it does, while art is not utilitarian - it is valued for subjective human reasons, which, for many people, include human authorship. It's the same reason people build their games out of code libraries, but generally design bespoke art for it (with some exceptions).

As a professional coder, I both agree and deeply hate this position.

And code indeed has its values. See all algorithms invented by Carmack like BSPs, z-fail, etc.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#65

Post by majormajor »

rdbl27 wrote: post #26
tsimionescu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because code is utilitarian, it is only valued for what it does, while art is not utilitarian - it is valued for subjective human reasons, which, for many people, include human authorship. It's the same reason people build their games out of code libraries, but generally design bespoke art for it (with some exceptions).

The fact that these same people can't tell whether it was authored by a human or an AI without a seperate disclosure is strong evidence that human authorship as such is not what they value at all.

You don't get to play the game before you pay for it.

Do you want to have to go ask for refund after refund after noticing it's yet-another-AI-slop-cookie-cutter-lookalike several hours in?

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#66

Post by embedding-shape »

matusp wrote: post #38
volkk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i just think its extremely difficult to make a game that's good. i feel like most indie studios/solo developers that complain their game doesn't get any downloads or playtime is because their game is likely...bad. i have yet to bump into a story where an actually great game goes undiscovered. happy to be proven wrong!

And when you are an investor, you must predict who is able to make a good game. What is the likelihood that a Myst-like will pay for itself. There is already a lot of Myst-likes on Steam, do players want more?

The whole "visual novel" genre would say "Yes, we'd like more". They range from all sorts of gameplay though, from Myst-like to RPGs, and a lot in-between. Definitely a market for Myst-like games, the trick is to figure out so production costs don't overrun eventual profits of course, as always.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#67

Post by CamperBob2 »

What are you talking about? I can make a Myst-class game by next weekend, for practically no money.

The audience won't like it because they have beef with the tools I'd choose to use, but that's a them problem, not a me problem. Maybe I'm God's gift to game design but I just suck at art. They'll never know, I guess.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#68

Post by embedding-shape »

uxhacker wrote: post #9
thataccount wrote: post #3

Is it really that no one can afford it, or is it more no one really wants to back independent studios?

What the article misses is that the first game was made by just roughly 6 people on the development team. What has happened is the number of people working on games has become ridiculously large.

> What has happened is the number of people working on games has become ridiculously large.

Seems no one has written "The Mythical Man Month" for the game industry yet.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#69

Post by embedding-shape »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #10
functionmouse wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's that Myst was released in a hungry, undersaturated market, and the competition is a lot tougher now. I truly love what Cyanworlds is doing, but the fact of the matter is, I'd rather be playing TF2 Classic, or Animal Well, or Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, than Obduction. Another problem is, their games were popular at a time when most people didn't even have an internet connection, and therefore had far…

Myst was also bundled with a lot of PCs. Perhaps as a cheap way to show off CDROM capabilities. Getting games installed and working in that era was often a chore. So when people sat down to play, it was already there for them. Myst's sequels didn't sell as well as the first, despite the power of the brand, either. Likely because of competition.

> Myst was also bundled with a lot of PCs.

I think every single shareware/demo disc I had also had some variation/sequel to Myst in one way or another too, somehow.

Re: No one can afford to make Myst games anymore

#70

Post by [deleted] »

galangalalgol wrote: post #18
bob1029 wrote: post #13

The biggest issue is that it has become very accessible to approach AA quality in a solo setting. The jump from indie to AA is much more plausible than the jump from AA to AAA. The middle of the market is in a gigantic space trash compactor right now. I could sit down with one other level designer / environmental artist and create something that would be visually competitive with Myst in record time using modern tool…

Why is using it for code more acceptable than for art? I can't imagine we aren't already seeing tons of both in indie games. Maybe aaa too? Is there any ramification for leaving off the disclosure, or adding one? Personally if the gameplay is good I kind of don't care if it used lots of ai.

[deleted]
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