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U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

genesisopenmodels.anl.gov

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Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#141

Post by fulafel »

petcat wrote: post #107
firasd wrote: post #8

Just realized that there are basically no American open models right now ever since the Llama series was abandoned. Basically Gemma and GPT-OSS I guess? Ah but Mira Murati's new Inkling is Apache 2.0 But it makes sense that if you're a university researcher you are thinking about what's a model that will be open weight and developed over the long term and doesn't raise 'Chyna' concerns in Washington DC

Not only are there many American open weight models as others have mentioned, but Americans are the only ones doing actual open source models [0]. Not just distributing binary blobs and calling them "open". [0] https://allenai.org/

It is not the case that the only rebuildable-from-source open source models are from the USA. There's at least BLOOM, Apertus and OpenEuroLLM, and I'm sure there are many more.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#142

Post by somenameforme »

TFNA wrote: post #125
soulofmischief wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to tell if you are for or against access to open weight models as a general rule, so I am curious to hear your opinion on this. Personally, I think we will one day come to see access to open weight models as an inalienable right to defense against tyranny, the way the second amendment is framed today. Just as encryption has become, which we similarly had to fight for in the 90s. I also understand that…

"I think we will one day come to see access to open weight models as an inalienable right to defense against tyranny." I don't think this kind of rhetoric about individual civil liberties is realistic any more when the next centuries belong to China, and even countries with a liberal democratic tradition are converging towards the Chinese model.

The reason the China model is working in China is because their economy is booming. As soon as it slows down, which it will, they're going to be in for chaos. This is also very historically precedented, where China has always gone through dynastic cycles of flourish, stagnate, decline, chaos, reset.

China isn't doing well because of their model, they're doing well because of their economy. Their success is in spite of their governmental model, except in as much as having a dictatorship that can, for example, meaningfully deter corporate malfeasance, or do other such things that can help contribute to their economic growth. That part other countries could certainly take a thing or two from - instead, they just seem to want the censorship and surveillance.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#144

Post by dragonwriter »

firasd wrote: post #8

Just realized that there are basically no American open models right now ever since the Llama series was abandoned. Basically Gemma and GPT-OSS I guess? Ah but Mira Murati's new Inkling is Apache 2.0 But it makes sense that if you're a university researcher you are thinking about what's a model that will be open weight and developed over the long term and doesn't raise 'Chyna' concerns in Washington DC

Even if by “open models” you specifically restrict that to LLM or LLM-backbone models with different or additional modalities to text released by major American firms then there are still a lot of American open models being released. Many of them are small models and/or highly-specialized fine-tunes of other open models, but there are still a whole lot.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

embedding-shape wrote: post #105
CMay wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LiquidAI LFM models are amazing, but very situational. IBM Granite series are also unique and interesting for trying to reduce liability and extend local context size. Nvidia ships some and there was also that Inkling model recently. Poolside just released theirs. Meta might release something this year. X AI's Grok is still due to release a model, if Elon keeps to his word even if they only release a distilled versio…

> but it's more like we're being careful What? US laboratories are currently unable to contain their agents while doing security testing , and besides that, time and time again US labs seem to put short-term money above long-term safety. Wasn't that literally why they tried to oust Altman from OpenAI, as he basically was 100% focused on profits and tried to cut down on safety across the board and lied to get his way?…

> US laboratories are currently unable to contain their agents while doing security testing

Alternative interpretation: US labs are using the supposed inability to control their frontier models as simultaneously marketing for the capability of their models AND as manufacture evidence to support their lobbying the government on the “safety need” to create costly compliance barriers to smaller competitors and open models.

Oligopoly isn't going to maintain itself.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#146

Post by Danox »

firasd wrote: post #8

Just realized that there are basically no American open models right now ever since the Llama series was abandoned. Basically Gemma and GPT-OSS I guess? Ah but Mira Murati's new Inkling is Apache 2.0 But it makes sense that if you're a university researcher you are thinking about what's a model that will be open weight and developed over the long term and doesn't raise 'Chyna' concerns in Washington DC

What makes more sense is to do something like deepseek at one of the major universities put those bright computer science young minds to work, in the good old days almost every major university would have done that has any major US university done that? Stanford Harvard Berkeley if the Chinese can put together a team like deep seek why can’t that be done at a major university in the United States?

https://www.interconnects.ai/p/the-american-deepseek-project

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#147

Post by colinhb »

petcat wrote: post #107
firasd wrote: post #8

Just realized that there are basically no American open models right now ever since the Llama series was abandoned. Basically Gemma and GPT-OSS I guess? Ah but Mira Murati's new Inkling is Apache 2.0 But it makes sense that if you're a university researcher you are thinking about what's a model that will be open weight and developed over the long term and doesn't raise 'Chyna' concerns in Washington DC

Not only are there many American open weight models as others have mentioned, but Americans are the only ones doing actual open source models [0]. Not just distributing binary blobs and calling them "open". [0] https://allenai.org/

There are many open source (not just open weight) non-US models - some of the more notable ones:

  - Soofi S, DE, ~32B
  - Apertus 1.5, CH, ~32B
  - EuroLLM-22B, EU, ~22B 
  - LLM-jp-3, JP, ~172B
  - K2-65B, UAE, ~65B
Soofi S and Apertus 1.5 outperform or are at least comparable to Ai2 depending on benchmarks.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#148

Post by petcat »

Danox wrote: post #146
firasd wrote: post #8

Just realized that there are basically no American open models right now ever since the Llama series was abandoned. Basically Gemma and GPT-OSS I guess? Ah but Mira Murati's new Inkling is Apache 2.0 But it makes sense that if you're a university researcher you are thinking about what's a model that will be open weight and developed over the long term and doesn't raise 'Chyna' concerns in Washington DC

What makes more sense is to do something like deepseek at one of the major universities put those bright computer science young minds to work, in the good old days almost every major university would have done that has any major US university done that? Stanford Harvard Berkeley if the Chinese can put together a team like deep seek why can’t that be done at a major university in the United States? https://www.interco…

University of Washington does what you are describing.

https://www.cs.washington.edu/research/artificial-intelligen...

I'm sure there are several other universities doing the same.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#150

Post by appplication »

sroerick wrote: post #149

It would be extremely interesting to me if the usgov produces a model which honors copyright and is also useful. This would give them extreme leverage over the labs, who may be violating copyright in significant and obvious ways.

Honestly the battle for copyright with models is lost. The takeaway is copyright applies to you as a small user and not to billion/trillion dollar companies. Same as any other US law, really.
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