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The USSR in 100 Photographs

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Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#51

Post by [deleted] »

iammjm wrote: post #48
hn_submit wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is plumbing seen as the pinnacle of human development? We lived without it until the late 19th century whilst in Mesopotamia they had sewage systems, plumbing and even toilet bowls 5000 years ago. The Romans sewers built before the birth of Christ are still in use today. Note that even today hundreds of millions in India and China still don't have access to modern toilets or sewage systems.

I’m not sure about the pinnacle, but for me plumbing definitely makes it to the list of the top 100 most important human achievements, at least as far as sanitation, health and quality of life goes

[deleted]

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#52

Post by coldtea »

iammjm wrote: post #19

More like: USSR propaganda in 100 photographs. One “man in space” vs millions of people devoid of plumbing and basic products, all living in a repressive orwellian society. The aftermath is still tangible: former satellite states are even after 30 years behind Western Europe economically, the former USSR republics are either marginalised, autocratic or in active war for their survival against their former colonial ma…

>vs millions of people devoid of plumbing and basic products

Quite the opposite: millions of people got electricity and plumbing in the USSR era, that lacked before.

>The aftermath is still tangible: former satellite states are even after 30 years behind Western Europe economically

And how are the Latin American 20th century right wing countries doing compared to Western Europe?

Funnily forgot how most of the Western European countries had massive colonies funding their earlier development, which the eastern european countries lacked.

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#53

Post by anavat »

iammjm wrote: post #19

More like: USSR propaganda in 100 photographs. One “man in space” vs millions of people devoid of plumbing and basic products, all living in a repressive orwellian society. The aftermath is still tangible: former satellite states are even after 30 years behind Western Europe economically, the former USSR republics are either marginalised, autocratic or in active war for their survival against their former colonial ma…

It was far from utopia but it wasn't orwellian. It was different in a way that's hard to explain if you didn't experience it. The lack of public goods, lower living standards, and the oppressiveness of the state were somewhat compensated by the peace of mind coming from knowing that you couldn't become unemployed or homeless. This is what a lot of people miss when they say they miss USSR.

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#54

Post by tocs3 »

TomMasz wrote: post #49

The photos of stores and the paucity of merchandise available say a lot.

Yes, I have heard a lot about the austerity of life in the USSR growing up in the 1980s. Comparing life in the world of today to what was available , even in the US, is going to look meager. Growing up in a small town in the 1980s in the US our local grocery store could be measured in the 100s sqft (that also sold clothing and was a feed store) . Now in the same area I shop in a store that can be measured in acres with a super Walmart down the street that is even larger and a few other giant stores in the neighborhood (Home Depot, Academy, etc). It will make anything of the time look sparse. Again, not trying to say the USSR had an abundance of merchandise but that they were different times.

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#55

Post by adwi »

joshstrange wrote: post #44

I watched "Russia 1985–1999: TraumaZone - What It Felt Like to Live Through The Collapse of Communism and Democracy" (7 episode documentary series) last year and can highly recommend it. It's not like any documentary I'd ever seen, there is no narration, very little "story" exactly, it's mostly a collection of footage spliced together (I believe it was all/mostly BBC footage, a lot of it seemed like b-roll-type stuff…

Adam Curtis is great, definitely check out his other work.

Hypernormalisation is a good place to start: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr7T07WfIhM

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#56

Post by cudla100 »

joshstrange wrote: post #44

I watched "Russia 1985–1999: TraumaZone - What It Felt Like to Live Through The Collapse of Communism and Democracy" (7 episode documentary series) last year and can highly recommend it. It's not like any documentary I'd ever seen, there is no narration, very little "story" exactly, it's mostly a collection of footage spliced together (I believe it was all/mostly BBC footage, a lot of it seemed like b-roll-type stuff…

I like this.

https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilani/kategorie/4079-histor...

No subtitles, but it is all on youtube anyway.

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#57

Post by olexsmir »

cr1895 wrote: post #27
iammjm wrote: post #19

More like: USSR propaganda in 100 photographs. One “man in space” vs millions of people devoid of plumbing and basic products, all living in a repressive orwellian society. The aftermath is still tangible: former satellite states are even after 30 years behind Western Europe economically, the former USSR republics are either marginalised, autocratic or in active war for their survival against their former colonial ma…

>don’t let them trick you into imagining USSR as some sort of utopia was there some particular risk of this?

I see a lot of westerners praise USSR as some sort of lost paradise. And for me, Eastern European, it's crazy

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#58

Post by epolanski »

keiferski wrote: post #30
epolanski wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Polish and your statement is absolutely false. Things were simply different. My family had an absolutely happy life for all the generations that followed WW2.

I've lived in Poland for the last decade. I'd say 95% of the population looks back on the USSR era with negative views. Poland probably has the best situation it's been in for hundreds of years. The opinions of 20 year olds that weren't alive during the USSR era do not count.

Of course, why would I, a Pole from as many generations as I can go back in time, know about it better that an expat?

1. Living in Poland does not mean knowing how Poles think about it

2. > I'd say 95% of the population looks back on the USSR era with negative views

This is wrong, opinions about PRL have always been mixed and highly influenced by demographics. [1]

And they shifted in time. 2014 was the first time more Poles had a negative opinion on PRL than a positive one, similar polls in 2009 and 2000 had much more people seeing the PRL positively (and better than democratic Poland). [2]

3. The opinions of 20 year olds that weren't alive during the USSR era do not count.

True, very true! And ironically this is probably where your wrong ideas come from: talking to your millennial coworkers likely in some tech hub or getting randoms opinions over the internet.

Stats show that people that were at least 15 by 1989 have warm or mixed memories about PRL. It's actually younger generations that learn it by history rather than experience to hold negative ones.

And this shift is even harsher after 2014 and 2016 as there's less people who lived those times polled and more youth that didn't, let alone the Russo-Ukrainian war pushed more people into harsher stances.

Let me tell you how things are: life in Communist Poland was ok, people had jobs, had roofs on their heads, had hobbies, did sports, made friends, love, went on vacations. Lives were normal.

Are things better now? They are.

But to imagine communist countries as some bleak grey dystopia ala papers please or Orwell's 1984 where people were unhappy is nonsense. Believe it or not people had normal lives, with jobs, roofs on their heads, making friends, love, going on vacations, playing sports, cultivating hobbies, etc.

I see this every time the topic of communism in Eastern Europe comes up on socials/internet: people that didn't live the era, nor the country, nor the system, speaking about how the people that lived it feel or think.

[1] https://dzieje.pl/aktualnosci/cbos-44-proc-polakow-pozytywni...

[2] https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2009/K_093_09.PDF

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#59

Post by epolanski »

Arodex wrote: post #24
epolanski wrote: post #14

At times I think about how democracies, especially those plagued by winner-takes-all mechanics like presidential and semi-presidential republics, can pretend to be democratic while de facto being very authoritarian. In the USSR, workers (in Soviets) voted their delegates and the delegates in turn elected the top hierarchy of the communist party. So yes, the USSR was obviously an authoritarian regime controlled by a s…

Modern democracy is not just about elections but about the separation of powers.

That separation of powers exists and existed in all the modern democratic presidential and semi presidential republics that failed to avoid the authoritarian turn.

Winner-takes-all mechanic are flawed, non representative, breed personal cults, and put power in hands of individuals that are hard to remove (both constitutionally and by them being able to claim popular mandate).

All those republics need to break them is the right person in the right moment.

Numbers and facts clearly show that parliamentary republics do not suffer the same threat as any individual has to win the support and votes of its own party, coalition and parliament every single day and its very easy to remove.

Re: The USSR in 100 Photographs

#60

Post by rexpop »

uwagar wrote: post #33
iammjm wrote: post #19

More like: USSR propaganda in 100 photographs. One “man in space” vs millions of people devoid of plumbing and basic products, all living in a repressive orwellian society. The aftermath is still tangible: former satellite states are even after 30 years behind Western Europe economically, the former USSR republics are either marginalised, autocratic or in active war for their survival against their former colonial ma…

as if this society is not orwellian. think snowden.

Oh sure, but then again look at South Korea! India! Argentina!
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