Won't we be given some specifics so that we don't have to guess what famous OSS author actually typed "HAHAHA" at a pull request ?
Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
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Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#62My favorite comments I will never forget from my ex-CTO: "you are wrong about this, because I say you are wrong." [turned out: he was dead wrong!] "stay home if you want to answer phonecall from your dad." [knowing he is in the hospital] "today you have been all day on the phone." [after talking with dad for 3 min 35 sec] "stop pinging google to check if the net is working." "ping doesn't tell you anything." "I hate…
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#63I have to wonder how many people see Linus Torvald's behavior and think what he does is OK. Linus walks a VERY fine line, and his insults and demeaning comments are usually directed at people who "know better." I have had a few drinks so it's hard to properly articulate what I mean, but maybe somebody else knows what I'm talking about.
This part struck me - as a college student who hasn't been involved in tech culture for that long, all I had heard of Linus is about his brilliance but his harshness and perhaps arrogance.
So, assuming my impression and Hahn's are both accurate - what changed? I think that the stress of life gets to us and we start to cut the pleasantries, tact, and niceties that seem to slow us down. We don't mean to be a jerk, but the fast-paced lives we commit ourselves to don't allow time for us to treat others as respectfully as we can. We're blunt because it is easier on us and we don't care about what it does to others.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#64The best way to respond to that is to politely request what you need and then ignore if they won't be helpful. ... but humans don't always respond in the best way: Another possible response is to respond harshly and critically in order to generate a hierarchy: "I am not here to serve you. Your patches may be accepted if it suits my fancy.". Neither extreme of being high and mighty nor of allowing people to simply abuse you is ideal.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is literally nothing that you gain from being derisive that you can't also gain from being polite. And the tone you set for your community is vastly different. Derision of stupidity is probably one of the worst characteristics of hacker culture, because “stupidity” tends to be shorthand for “disagreement with my point of view”. I have trouble making a cogent argument around the derision of stupidity because der…
> There is literally nothing that you gain from being derisive that you can't also gain from being polite. As maintainer of a large open source project, this isn't entirely true. I would agree that derision is bad. But being blunt is good. Many people confuse bluntness with rudeness. There is every benefit to being blunt with stupid people. The people who intentionally and wilfully ignore the documentation, who deman…
While I try to be polite regardless, I have no strong issue with people who are blunt by default (I also happen to think there's a fine line between bluntness and rudeness, but that's a different topic altogether). I think the key of what you said is “once they've made it clear they're intentionally” doing what they're doing. That is what makes a person toxic. Missing documentation or contribution guidelines or what have you on the first try, less so. On the second try, I'd say bluntness is in order (“we've already asked you to do X, please keep that in mind in future requests” or somesuch). After that, you're dealing with a person who is dragging down both your community and your own time. That's a problem.
And still, it's more productive and beneficial to the community as a whole to be blunt rather than derisive.
Anyway, yeah, net net, I fully agree :)
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#66I have to wonder how many people see Linus Torvald's behavior and think what he does is OK. Linus walks a VERY fine line, and his insults and demeaning comments are usually directed at people who "know better." I have had a few drinks so it's hard to properly articulate what I mean, but maybe somebody else knows what I'm talking about.
I think you have to remember that these guys are operating at scale, and until you've walked in those shoes...
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is literally nothing that you gain from being derisive that you can't also gain from being polite. And the tone you set for your community is vastly different. Derision of stupidity is probably one of the worst characteristics of hacker culture, because “stupidity” tends to be shorthand for “disagreement with my point of view”. I have trouble making a cogent argument around the derision of stupidity because der…
>Derision of stupidity is probably one of the worst characteristics of hacker culture, because “stupidity” tends to be shorthand for “disagreement with my point of view”. Then it's not stupidity. That's not what this article (at least that I can see), or my post, was talking about. I was referring specifically to failure to RTFM as the big one, with a side order of bad commits and pull requests. Ask any tech support…
The mistake so many people make is to let someone's lack of knowledge translate into “stupidity”, which is typically defined, and defined by you yourself, as an inherent, unchangeable trait. We toss around the word stupid, but it's got two meanings. One is the one I use with my friends when I talk about something who doesn't know as much about something I do. The other one is the one you use to justify derision. Besides not accepting derision in general, I think there are very very few legitimate instances where the other one applies at all.
“And anyways, if you have an open source project, and it's set up in such a way that commits have to be approved by one person or a group of people, then that one person or group of people are the only people who's point of view matters, at least when it comes to that code in that project. Don't like it? That's what forking is for.”
We're talking about whether people should change their behavior. That applies to current show-runners, not to whoever chooses to fork a project. Once your project is entrenched, you can feel like you have the power to say whatever you want because your community is vast. That's a problem.
“Disagree. Derision is a society's way of pointing out that you did something you shouldn't have. I have absolutely no problem with mocking stupidity. Stupidity is evil and everything wrong with the world, and should be mocked and driven out mercilessly at every opportunity.”
Literally, mocking is one huge component of bullying. There's no question about it, just watch a bully. Mocking is bullying. Derision is bullying. There are other ways to point out you've done something you shouldn't have, including stating it politely.
Pointing at a silly pull request and saying “wat” isn't in the same ballpark as bullying solely because it hasn't been done to you when you've been trying to do something you hadn't done before. Or because you hadn't tried to have a social interaction (as opening a pull request is) when you're generally nervous about such, only to be slapped in the face by a comment like that.
“If you got a pull request into that system, then you obviously got ahold of that information some way.”
Yeah, that blog post that mentioned pull requests were legit. Then I googled pull request with the project name and found where I do those. Then I opened a pull request with my changes.
Uh-oh, there was a guide I missed somewhere. Crap. Clearly the proper response to that is mockery and anger, rather than an understanding that maybe I wasn't intentionally trying to waste your time.
“Time is valuable.”
I have never heard a lamer excuse for being an ass (I'm not calling you one, by the way—I'm saying in general), sorry. Yes, time is valuable. You can be polite about pointing that out instead of being derisive. You can say “wat” or you can say “We can't really take this pull request; there's no reason to add this feature.” Or “unfortunately this pull request doesn't adhere to our code guidelines, and I'm afraid I don't have time to help you get it in line with those right now”. Something that acknowledges that maybe their time is valuable, too. Since these are people who want to become members of your community, and invest their own time in it as well.
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#68Constructive criticism is a great thing, but telling someone they will never work again in this industry because they make a small CSS error on their first ever post-college project is another.
I've been fired from one job for standing up in a meeting and calling the boss a self-important asshole & refusing to retract it.
Life is too short to let these type of people get you down, we are all just floating on a rock in space & going to die in a few years....what's important: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/14su4p/he_sang_to_her_...
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#69I played pull request with a framework recently. There was something that I wanted to do that could only be done if the framework had fully chained a JavaScript function (ie, forwarded all parameters, included "this", and returned the result). It was an easy fix, but it turned out that what appeared to be an omission was intentional due to very specific edge cases in JavaScript that prevented someone from doing somet…
Re: Dear Open Source Project Leader: Quit Being A Jerk
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
When in society did "Look at what this jerk is doing." become something unwarranted? If people are acting like assholes, they deserved to be called out.
When the goal is to change behavior as a whole it helps to not point anyone out. If you linked to a Github pull request that demonstrates this behavior, that guy now becomes the eye of the storm, instead of the community where the focus should be. If the author did that, we'd all be talking about how githubuserxyz is such an ass for belittling contributors and how dissimilar we each individually are from githubuserxy…
But then people like Duke Wellington started getting publicly mocked in the papers for engaging in duels and the practice died out almost immediately.
So, talking about how people in general ought to be nicer won't actually change how people behave. Calling out githubuserxyz for being an ass, though, will make people afraid of being mocked like githubuserxyz and so actually change their behavior.
Seriously, there's an excellent book called The Honor Code about how these things happen historically that I would recommend.