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I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

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Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#251

Post by LorenPechtel »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #80
mshroyer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth is so much more expensive than an arbitrary pair of devices that could max out a cable?

Think about it. You need to generate a precise, calibrated, 40GHz signal, transmit it, then precisely measure the returned signal for phase, amplitude, and waveform integrity -at that speed. Oscilloscopes and logic analyzers that run at that speed, are damn expensive.

But do you actually need that at the consumer level?

Make some properly formatted garbage, send it down the wire to the other end of the tester and see if you can read the result. It won't tell you if the cable is marginal, but how often is that actually an issue? Network cables are connected to hardware that retries, masking such errors.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#252

Post by chainingsolid »

fragmede wrote: post #239
chainingsolid wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mention a Fluke, which I'm assuming is in relation to an ethernet cable tester (made by Fluke). I've seen/used continuity testers, but not something better (I've been using iperf3) Could you link/include the sku/model number of what you are refering too?

https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Fluke-Networks-LIQ-100-LinkIQ-... Only $2,500!

That would explain why I haven't seen one! Thanks for the info.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#253

Post by threecheese »

rtkwe wrote: post #225
josephg wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just set a minimum baseline/standardization for the type of cable/capabilities you need for your highest end device. Only keep those cables, give away the rest I don't have a cable tester, and I don't want to buy one. The companies who make USB cables should be responsible for this testing. I don't want to do expensive homework on behalf of USB cable companies.

Buy nice cables from a trusted brand and bin anything else. You're going to be overpaying though because there's not a lot of reason to be powering your laptop with a 480 Gbps TB 4 USB-C cable.

That’s not all you need to do though; once you have bought all Cable Matters or Anker cables, you still need to remember which one charges your iPhone quickly, and which one is thunderbolt-capable but missing the lightning bolt, which one is charging-only, etc. I have a whole mess of cables - and several of these dongles (you need a usb-a capable one, and only that other one reads thunderbolt markers, etc). I spend the time to label any cable that I buy myself, and wish the vendors would do it instead.

From reading TT, it seems there’s just no easy solution to complexity if we want interoperability.

I didn’t hate lightning cables…

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#254

Post by jerbearito »

latch wrote: post #115
jerbearito wrote: post #64

Does HN allow spammy posts written for the sake of sharing an affiliate link? Surprised to see this here.

You can read the guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Might find this one relevant: "If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did."

Thanks so much!

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#255

Post by Cieric »

verandaguy wrote: post #48
Cieric wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also crackle out of the package, or at least the 5 I got did. Kind of sound like the thin glow sticks a bit.

Could that possibly be shielding? I can't say I've seen it on USB-C-esque cables (except maybe a thunderbolt cable a while back?) but I've seen some cables use a type of aluminum or mylar-looking foil between the outer rubber sleeve and the inner sleeves and wires.

Oh yeah, I do think it's the shielding. I was just kind of surprised by it since I've never bought a cable that's done that.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#256

Post by asteroidburger »

po1nt wrote: post #199
jrmg wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs? This isn’t a great example because, on the ‘other side', car chargers also have different size cables between the ‘charger’ (EVSE) and the car, with the same plug used on them all (especially with NACS, which doesn’t even differentiate between AC and DC plugs). They rely on negotiation to tell th…

We are lucky we don't need to transfer (so much) data over these. Just imagine looking for Gen 2x2 or Gen 2 SuperSpeed charging station.

No, we need to transfer a lot of power instead. So those with 800v cars need to be mindful to visit certain charger stations/types over other ones in order to get a fast charge, vs relying on the car to boost it from an older station.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#257

Post by Mithriil »

The first 1 star comment on the "YEREADW USB-C Tester Power Meter" marketed here is worrisome:

> HOWEVER, the issue is that, for some reason, on some devices, it seems to mess with PD negotiation. On chargers that I know can output 15V, it will not negotiate to 15V, it will only charge the device at 5V 3A.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#258

Post by mrheosuper »

stouset wrote: post #248
mrheosuper wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have no idea why, nor have I bothered to find out The reason is simple; your device violated the USB-C spec by saving $0.0000002 of BOM cost

USB-C is a physical connector layout. The full cable that is between the two connector ends has an enormous matrix of specifications it can support. There are variations of bandwidth, power delivery (or not), Thunderbolt versions (or not), DisplayPort versions (or not) and other things I’m forgetting. A cable that supports all of these things costs like $70+. Between two devices, the cable, and enormously complicated…

Im not talking about the cable.

Im talking about whatever the device Parent was mentioning, they violate the spec, that's why they only work with usb a-c cable

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#259

Post by josephg »

ProZsolt wrote: post #244
josephg wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can be solved the same way it was solved for SD / CFe cards. Just have a single mark which guarantees a baseline set of requirements. - "USB Speed 2" means [20gbps, thunderbolt 3, displayport, 20 watts]. - "USB Speed 3" means 100gbps, thunderbolt 4, etc. - "Power 100" means 100 watts minimum. Make a little logo for each standard - "S2" / "S3" / "P100" which can be branded onto each end of the cable. People who c…

You mean something like this, which we have since 2021: https://learn.adafruit.com/understanding-usb-type-c-cable-ty...

Yes, like that but something that actually gets used. And it'd be good to have a way to know how much power a cable supports too.

Thanks for the link. I didn't know those labels also tell you if a cable supports displayport alt mode and thunderbolt 3.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#260

Post by maccard »

jaymmartin wrote: post #237
maccard wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the alternative world I use the cable that came with the device and I can tell apart from the other 10 black cables.

You can still use the cable that came with the device. Are there a lot of manufacturers who are shipping cables that are not sufficient for their device? And if the complaint is that cables are the same color, can they not be labeled? Everyone who wants different cables should just treat their USB-C cables as different cables. They get everything they want and the people who want the benefits of mixing cables (at the…

I think you’re technically right, but the point of the connector is to indicate what it will work with. It’s all well and good until you grab one of the white or black cables and put the wrong one bacj.

> they get everything they want

No, we get a bunch of cables which share a connector that pretend they’re interconnectable when they’re not. At a glance, my phone, MacBook and toothbrush cables are identical. I don’t want have to tell my wife or anyone who visits “don’t use the second charger from he left”

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