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As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

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Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#21

Post by cosmic_cheese »

stevekerr wrote: post #17

Why not .pkg (next, next, installer)? For the past week, I've been tweaking my startup's CLI to install as a .pkg, satisfy Apple signing, and everything that goes along with that. I've often wondered why so many companies opt for the icon method.

As a user I don’t like installer packages as much because without special utilities, they’re opaque and it’s hard to tell what they’ll do.

Of course copied binaries can cause plenty of trouble too, but I have much less of a reason to give an installed program admin privileges than I do an installer.

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#22

Post by mpfh »

stevekerr wrote: post #17

Why not .pkg (next, next, installer)? For the past week, I've been tweaking my startup's CLI to install as a .pkg, satisfy Apple signing, and everything that goes along with that. I've often wondered why so many companies opt for the icon method.

[dead]

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#23

Post by ianmurrays »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #21
stevekerr wrote: post #17

Why not .pkg (next, next, installer)? For the past week, I've been tweaking my startup's CLI to install as a .pkg, satisfy Apple signing, and everything that goes along with that. I've often wondered why so many companies opt for the icon method.

As a user I don’t like installer packages as much because without special utilities, they’re opaque and it’s hard to tell what they’ll do. Of course copied binaries can cause plenty of trouble too, but I have much less of a reason to give an installed program admin privileges than I do an installer.

Same here. Especially because most installer packages rely on these specifically to install "obscure" things, so I'm immediately distrustful of them.

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#24

Post by whstl »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #21
stevekerr wrote: post #17

Why not .pkg (next, next, installer)? For the past week, I've been tweaking my startup's CLI to install as a .pkg, satisfy Apple signing, and everything that goes along with that. I've often wondered why so many companies opt for the icon method.

As a user I don’t like installer packages as much because without special utilities, they’re opaque and it’s hard to tell what they’ll do. Of course copied binaries can cause plenty of trouble too, but I have much less of a reason to give an installed program admin privileges than I do an installer.

I really dislike PKGs and I have bought an app called Pacifist app to specifically know what they're doing.

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#25

Post by Barbing »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #12
herf wrote: post #8

It's fine for installing, but uninstalling is madness: Windows uninstallers try to clean up all the registry and user profile stuff they install. Mac apps seem to just leave stuff behind in Local Settings or Caches forever? Containers are not such a bad idea.

I bought AppZapper years ago, and it still works. There's a free tool out there somewhere as well. Don't knock on this feature, it can be a lifesaver if you've lost the license info. When you reinstall, sometimes the app can retrieve the license from old files.

>free tool

https://github.com/alienator88/Pearcleaner

>if you've lost the license info

Or used up your free trial, you get a reminder it’s time to buy!

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#26

Post by Barbing »

anArbitraryOne wrote: post #18

I'll never forget the first time that dreadful window appeared. I was frustrated for 10min, eventually turning to my phone to search for what to do.

Who says this doesn’t add to the discussion, come on! Voting you back up one…

Also senior citizens might have no idea what they’re supposed to do with it, as I’ve seen, so could be more accessible. (Maybe that’s a feature if it’s a junk app.)

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#27

Post by bigyabai »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #14

It makes more sense if one thinks of the disk image files as digital analogues to thumb drives, optical discs, etc. In the Classic Mac OS days a decent chunk of software (especially shareware/indieware) didn't have an installer and was just a folder you copied from a floppy disk or CD, which this process kinda mimics. You're just opening a file instead of putting in a disc.

Even Apple is unwilling to admit it makes sense, it's not like the App Store makes you drag the icon into a shopping cart or something. It's just poor design nowadays.

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#28

Post by stevekerr »

ianmurrays wrote: post #23
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I don’t like installer packages as much because without special utilities, they’re opaque and it’s hard to tell what they’ll do. Of course copied binaries can cause plenty of trouble too, but I have much less of a reason to give an installed program admin privileges than I do an installer.

Same here. Especially because most installer packages rely on these specifically to install "obscure" things, so I'm immediately distrustful of them.

That makes a lot of sense. With the icon method: The user is in full control.

In our case, the CLI is part of a data sync system, so it does need a "special" once-per-hour check for new data (keeping local and mobile in sync).

I've actually been surprised how strict Apple is before it will happily let signed code run. But the average user (including me previously) doesn't know that. I think trust comes down to being clear up front.

Note to self: Add extra details/options to installer (WYSIWYG)

Re: As a Windows user, it's a surreal way to install a program

#29

Post by lubujackson »

anArbitraryOne wrote: post #18

I'll never forget the first time that dreadful window appeared. I was frustrated for 10min, eventually turning to my phone to search for what to do.

Happened to me last year. My wife always taunted me because I have been anti-Apple since they hermetically sealed their iMacs so you couldn't stick in RAM with talking to a "genius". "It just works!" she says. I dunno, I guess I didn't think an "Install" button needed reworking but here we are, not an ugly instruction or tooltip in sight.

Also Apple: I bought my son an old refurbished iPad for watching Netflix on long drives. But you can't install Netflix! The OS is too old. What's the workaround? Simple, if you've previously installed a Netflix on another device you can "restore" it, and then Apple will let you install the old version. On the old OS.

Of course I didn't have an old Netflix installation so I went to install Netflix on my work laptop, but there is no Netflix app for laptops anymore! Finally, I got it working through Family Share after an hour of tedious effort. This may be more Netflix's fault than Apple, but why would an OS give that power to a 3rd party in the first place? What sense does this make?

It reminds me of NextJS where there is some minor niceties at the cost of magical thinking that you may need to move heaven and earth to circumvent in order to accomplish the most basic shit.

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