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US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

bbc.com

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Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#861

Post by perpetuallunch »

dathinab wrote: post #741
perpetuallunch wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it’s not $1.2 billion people to do the thing . It’s only $1.2 billion to not do the thing . To do the thing would require paying the original contracted amount. Whatever that might have been. Melbourne, well Victoria the whole state, is looking at a similar scenario for rail tunnels many believe serve little purpose. Around $1.2 billion to stop the work now and pay the early termination penalty. Plus maybe anothe…

> on ramming Net Zero down our power lines except this is AFIK just plain wrong much more relevant factors seem - spikes in energy need, mainly AI in recent years - extremely badly handling of power grids in a high multitude of ways not related to net zero (like seriously, the German grid is pretty bad compared to an optimal grid. But compared to the nonsense many parts of the US have, it looks like a pristine optima…

Modern coal fired power plants are much cleaner than those that contributed to acid rain.

You seriously believe coal fired power hasn’t evolved in the last 40 years?

You’re saying that renewables are cheap but only if you include gravity storage.

What gravity storage? The only useful one is pumped hydro, and that works approximately nowhere because of a lack of suitable geography.

Australia’s Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro is on track to cost an infinite amount and / or be finished never.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#862

Post by dwaltrip »

whack wrote: post #370
zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

Never attribute to stupidity what can be attributed to self-interest. It sure looks stupid when you look at America or the Roman Empire as a whole. But when you look at the specific individuals doing these "stupid" things, and the individuals enabling them, it is perfectly aligned with their own best interests.

Much of the stupidity stems from the impulse to coddle Trump’s ego. Both from Trump himself and anyone who interacts with him.

It becomes self-interest only because this man with a terrifically fragile holds so much power, so there is a strong incentive to appease him.

But the root problem is a powerful man beholden to a very fragile ego.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#863

Post by TeMPOraL »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #426
TeMPOraL wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Energy is at the core of everything we do. Make it more expensive, you immediately make some people go hungry, and then you also make everything else in the economy a tad more expensive, slowing things down, and as market readjusts and contracts, this makes even more people go hungry. There's a really strong incentive to keep energy generation cheap, because pretty much every social and political issue is dow…

Yes. "The economy is energy, energy is the economy". China understood this and is not just betting on both solar and nuclear like mad, they're also burning coal (so that the EU btw can cosplay being green, while offloading the production of many things it consumes to China). As a result energy prices in China are something like 7x cheaper than in Germany. Those with lots of energy saw their GDP growth in the 21st cen…

> [1] green people who, like watermelons, are only green on the outside and then bright extremist red on the inside

I hate political labels on principle, but I admit I'd find it fitting if some green parties started to be called "watermelon parties" for the reason you described.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#864

Post by zmmmmm »

pennomi wrote: post #372
zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

The US sure seems to be speedrunning the collapse though.

definitely

But then it's also true the real arc of these things is only properly visible in retrospect. For example I'm sure historians looking back would include the Iraq war as one of the data points on stupidity even though in the moment, people would feel it is totally disconnected from current circumstances. So we are still talking decades.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#865

Post by zmmmmm »

raphinou wrote: post #499
zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

Was it a book you read? In interested.

I started with the Lex Fridman podcast [0] and then I went from there exploring further with reading mostly online material interweaved with discussions with ChatGPT. It is actually a fascinating way to read about history. Admittedly, it is hardly a way to gain a proper comprehensive understanding.

I didn't think this comment would get so many replies!

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv1TUJSEM2k

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#866

Post by Timon3 »

Danox wrote: post #726
thaumaturgy wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if acting solely in one's own self-interest is stupid.

It’s the lack of coherent leadership at the top, the lawyers, junk bond, equity bankers, oil-men, and the military have had their chance, it’s time for the engineers, science, medical, builders, local bankers and internal infrastructure people to run things. And when I say run things I mean, stop accepting their word as the truth.

You're not going to build a long-term stable system that doesn't limit wealth accumulation, because it doesn't take long until all the power is back with everyone you mentioned.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#867

Post by Fricken »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #476
whack wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never attribute to stupidity what can be attributed to self-interest. It sure looks stupid when you look at America or the Roman Empire as a whole. But when you look at the specific individuals doing these "stupid" things, and the individuals enabling them, it is perfectly aligned with their own best interests.

It's almost as if acting solely in one's own self-interest is stupid.

Does our evolutionary fitness function count as self-interest? Climate change is on a runaway trajectory. We're in line for Darwin's top honour, but no one will be around to receive the award.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#868

Post by scott_w »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #497
scott_w wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wind turbines are not data centres. The sea is not part of Donald Trump’s property.

your neighbors property is not yours either, and hmm, I wonder if datacenters and wind turbines have anything in common?

Speak plainly. You’re making no sense whatsoever.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#869

Post by [deleted] »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #779
colechristensen wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Their whole job is defending the republic and in the easiest to win election they succumbed to the ego of a bumbling old man and failed to lead on anything at all. Those fools couldn't sell bottled water in a desert. You absolutely can blame the goalie for failing to defend the goal.

Sounds like blaming the abolitionists for slavery. Or blaming the police for murder since they didn't prevent it. Every terrible thing Trump does is really somebody else's fault.

[deleted]

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#870

Post by c7b »

zmmmmm wrote: post #310

I read up recently on the history of the fall of the roman empire and it was fascinating how eerily similar it was to the current state of the US. Overwhelmed by corruption and wars they make stupider and stupider decisions on ever larger scales, ever more frequently. And the population grows ever more cynical, eventually opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapse…

> opting for authoritarianism before eventually the center can't hold any more and it all collapses in on itself

It all depends on what you define as the collapse of the Roman Empire, but the earliest sensible candidate date would be about four and a half centuries after the population 'opted' for authoritarianism (which wasn't much of a choice for anyone btw).

People need to stop making senseless historical comparisons.

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