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EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

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Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#11

Post by jalanco »

cbc0201 wrote: post #3

First, your "Take Action" link doesn't work. Second, I don't really care if "NSA's Supercomputers" are scanning my emails, text messages and even my phone calls. They're not really interested in my activities. Third, I'll let you in on a little secret, Its not just overseas communication! If it keeps safe, what do I care!

I don't mean to pile on, but this comment reminds me of Eric Schmidt's comment that "if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to fear". There are at least a couple of things wrong with this sentiment:

(1) if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house, your bank records, safety deposit boxes, all your digital assets, etc. And by "etc" I mean also strip searching your family members or loved ones if "necessary". Did I go too far there? If so why? Because after all, "if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to fear". Who gets to decide how far is too far?

(2) And you might respond, "but these aren't strangers searching my stuff and family, these are duly authorized government officials." Well, duly authorized government officials are flawed human beings like all of us, and the ones doing the searching are most likely not elected by anyone.

And also, these people in power at the moment, whose motives you trust, will most definitely not be in power forever. One day, there will be authorities in power whose motives you don't trust at all, maybe for very good reasons. What then?

That's why the erosion of privacy rights is worth fighting.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#12

Post by Karunamon »

jalanco wrote: post #11
cbc0201 wrote: post #3

First, your "Take Action" link doesn't work. Second, I don't really care if "NSA's Supercomputers" are scanning my emails, text messages and even my phone calls. They're not really interested in my activities. Third, I'll let you in on a little secret, Its not just overseas communication! If it keeps safe, what do I care!

I don't mean to pile on, but this comment reminds me of Eric Schmidt's comment that "if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to fear". There are at least a couple of things wrong with this sentiment: (1) if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house, your bank records, safety deposit boxes, all your digital assets, etc. And by "etc" I mean also…
>if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house etc etc

Your point made here is nothing but a pure combination of reduction to the absurd and the slippery slope fallacy...

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#13

Post by SoftwareMaven »

Alaskan005 wrote: post #10
cbc0201 wrote: post #3

First, your "Take Action" link doesn't work. Second, I don't really care if "NSA's Supercomputers" are scanning my emails, text messages and even my phone calls. They're not really interested in my activities. Third, I'll let you in on a little secret, Its not just overseas communication! If it keeps safe, what do I care!

"If it keeps safe, what do I care!" I feel bad for you. Really do. I know it's a not a constructive comment but with him it seems like a lost cause.

You shouldn't dismiss him/her out of hand. This is the way the vast majority of people feel. Until we overcome that, those of us who do care will never succeed in changing anything.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#14

Post by jalanco »

Karunamon wrote: post #12
jalanco wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to pile on, but this comment reminds me of Eric Schmidt's comment that "if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to fear". There are at least a couple of things wrong with this sentiment: (1) if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house, your bank records, safety deposit boxes, all your digital assets, etc. And by "etc" I mean also…

>if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house etc etc Your point made here is nothing but a pure combination of reduction to the absurd and the slippery slope fallacy...

Ouch! Please feel free to elaborate because I'm not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with.

I mean, are you saying that you believe that the people given the authority to invade your privacy always have good intentions? Because I don't believe that.

In the real world, these authorities are often driven by pressure to "find something", or to "make a quota", or to "prove our worth". And the results often harm innocent people.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#15

Post by darkarmani »

cbc0201 wrote: post #3

First, your "Take Action" link doesn't work. Second, I don't really care if "NSA's Supercomputers" are scanning my emails, text messages and even my phone calls. They're not really interested in my activities. Third, I'll let you in on a little secret, Its not just overseas communication! If it keeps safe, what do I care!

> If it keeps safe, what do I care!

Ah! This is the crux. What if these efforts make you LESS safe?

The more people knowing where you are, how much money you have, etc, the easier it is to commit crime against you. You do have private information that keeps you safe.

This is why kids aren's supposed to tell strangers on the phone that they are home alone.

Which is more likely? You are injured in a terrorist attack or your information is leaked?

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#16

Post by alrs »

I live in California.

I just called Feinstein's office and registered my opinion. According to the staffer, Feinstein supports the extension. Her office can be reached at (202) 224-3841.

I called Boxer's office as well. After dialing to speak with a staffer, it rang several times and then hung up. (202) 224-3553.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#17

Post by Karunamon »

jalanco wrote: post #14
Karunamon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house etc etc Your point made here is nothing but a pure combination of reduction to the absurd and the slippery slope fallacy...

Ouch! Please feel free to elaborate because I'm not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with. I mean, are you saying that you believe that the people given the authority to invade your privacy always have good intentions? Because I don't believe that. In the real world, these authorities are often driven by pressure to "find something", or to "make a quota", or to "prove our worth". And the results often harm innoc…

Well, okay.

>(1) if you really believe that, then you would have no problem with a group of strangers searching your house, your bank records, safety deposit boxes, all your digital assets, etc.

No, actually I wouldn't, because there's an entire freakin' universe of difference between cops searching your house, destroying things, having your neighbors wonder WTF is going on and having an open profile on a social network (which is what that oft-maligned quote was talking about)

Someone digging through your possessions (and strip searching your family, feckin' seriously?) is kind of not even similar to an email being picked up by an automated computer system.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#18

Post by chimeracoder »

alrs wrote: post #16

I live in California. I just called Feinstein's office and registered my opinion. According to the staffer, Feinstein supports the extension. Her office can be reached at (202) 224-3841. I called Boxer's office as well. After dialing to speak with a staffer, it rang several times and then hung up. (202) 224-3553.

> Feinstein supports the extension. Her office can be reached at (202) 224-3841.

Don't let this stop you (or anyone) from calling, but it's going to take a lot to get Feinstein to switch her stance on this.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#19

Post by chimeracoder »

w1ntermute wrote: post #7
halviti wrote: post #2

With the amount of effort that the executive branch took in order to get this legislation, even going as far as attempting to invoke the states secret privilege [1], I wonder what sort of public outcry it would take to actually get this unconstitutional legislation off the books. Furthermore, if it could be done, I wonder what would become of the 10's of billions of dollars in facilities and equipment that have been…

In my experience, the sad truth has been that most average people have responded to this issue by saying that they have nothing to hide and don't mind since it helps catch terrorists. Normally, you could expect Republicans to oppose a big government program like this, but, as we all know, as soon as you say the word "terrorist", they're all suddenly in favor of big government and big spending.

> Normally, you could expect Republicans to oppose a big government program like this, but, as we all know, as soon as you say the word "terrorist", they're all suddenly in favor of big government and big spending.

It works on both sides of the aisle. I'm too embarrassed to count how many progressives I know who opposed the FISA wiretaps, the PATRIOT act, and Gitmo under Bush, yet bent over backwards to find ways to excuse Obama for taking each of those policies even further.

Re: EFF: Stop Congress from Reauthorizing the Warrantless Spying Bill

#20

Post by wjamesg »

alrs wrote: post #16

I live in California. I just called Feinstein's office and registered my opinion. According to the staffer, Feinstein supports the extension. Her office can be reached at (202) 224-3841. I called Boxer's office as well. After dialing to speak with a staffer, it rang several times and then hung up. (202) 224-3553.

Good for you, I encourage more to do the same.

I interned for my Congressman on Capitol Hill a few years ago. In my opinion, volume calling is the best way to actually get heard. Web forms, emails, faxes: much less so.

U.S. citizens,

Contact your U.S. Representative: http://www.house.gov/representatives/find

Contact your Senators: http://www.senate.gov

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