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US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

bbc.com

741–750 of 933 posts

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “… without deeper understanding or knowledge.” Ha! Like the common sense to dam migratory river systems to make hydroelectric power. Good idea at the time, and who cares about salmon. I have a toaster, and a percolator, and a new fangled “ice” box (formerly chilled by ice, now a maker of ice). S/ My common sense says 1.2B compensation to not do something we otherwise need is bananas as opposed to the common sense—p…

But it’s not $1.2 billion people to do the thing . It’s only $1.2 billion to not do the thing . To do the thing would require paying the original contracted amount. Whatever that might have been. Melbourne, well Victoria the whole state, is looking at a similar scenario for rail tunnels many believe serve little purpose. Around $1.2 billion to stop the work now and pay the early termination penalty. Plus maybe anothe…

> on ramming Net Zero down our power lines

except this is AFIK just plain wrong

much more relevant factors seem

- spikes in energy need, mainly AI in recent years

- extremely badly handling of power grids in a high multitude of ways not related to net zero (like seriously, the German grid is pretty bad compared to an optimal grid. But compared to the nonsense many parts of the US have, it looks like a pristine optimal solution.)

- health/environmental protections _not to be confused with climate protection_!! Not wanting your citizens to have massive health issues due to air pollution, acid rains etc. has _nothing_ to do with net zero. People tend to somehow always conflate it. But a lot of the policies the US ended up doing (compared to the ones they say they want to do) where more about that then anything climate related.

- inflation statistics being... badly done. Like if most relevant daily use products have price increases noticeable above inflation then your way to measure inflation is the problem.

And a lot of the net zero things, tend to actually produce relatively cheap energy, even if you include cost for e.g. some gravity energy store and similar buffers. Just if you don't properly modernize, then you can run into troubles. As part of the US has never been in favor of renewables at all you can guess what happens there wrt. making decisions to which make things work compared to decisions which hinder things and then blame the technology instead of your bad politics.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wind turbines are not data centres. The sea is not part of Donald Trump’s property.

your neighbors property is not yours either, and hmm, I wonder if datacenters and wind turbines have anything in common?

Let’s go with what this is actually about, windmills. I lived next door to a farm with windmills on it and I actually found them mesmerizing and nice to look at. Also a fun talking point with people visiting, but if we all had them in our backyard I suppose that novelty would wear off.

So tl;dr: I would absolutely want to have windmills as my neighbours again. Datacenter not so much, but they are also substantially bigger, though not taller, than windmills.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do not know if the following is relevant for the Carolina Long Bay area, and while neither Republicans nor Democrats can be trusted, it is not without precedent for offshore wind turbine projects to be disallowed due to radar concerns. https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/11/11/why-swe... > Why Sweden nixed new wind farms for fear of missing Russian missiles > BERLIN — Sweden’s government this month…

[flagged]

Sorry your argument for something being renewal able or not is based on if it grows on trees? You realize modern infrastructure is generally not growing out the ground or we would not have taken thousands or years to get to this point?

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all of those are forests that are supposed to burn every year or two. Check with a forester knowledgeable in your specific area because there is no universal truth here. However the generalization that all forests in North America need to burn regularly for good health is true even though there are exceptions.

I am a small scale forester (hundreds to thousands of acres). Supposed to burn is ... complicated and not necessarily true. Many forests in the PNW have had indigenous Americans burn them regularly because it improves forest health. These fires were typically kept small and well maintained to avoid damage to the trees. White settlers put a stop to this practice, and natural fires were considerably less common than an…

Thanks for that complexity. I've posted brought the same thing and all the responses have been "no, fire is bad" from people who obviously have no idea what they are talking about.

I'm standing by my claims. However understand that I am in no way contradicting anything you said.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#745
post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing we have called "democracy" for the past three hundred or so years is basically just shadow government by whoever has the deepest pockets to influence public opinion with propaganda and pay politicians to do what they want. The politicians get blamed and cycled out while everything continues as before.

If that were true Hillary Clinton would have been president.

Money is deep on both "sides". It didn't help Harris to have the most either. But you can't deny that some political steerage toward donor agendas occurs.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#746
post #629

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Trump 1 was so bad, people showed up in droves to vote for anything else. That's how we ended up with a dimensia president. Biden was so bad, people showed up in droves to vote for anything else. That's how we ended up in a war with Iran. Trump 2 is so bad, people will show up in droves to vote for anything else. The downward spiral continues.

Trump, not Biden, started the war with Iran.

That's what I said?

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#747

Situation is quite different than the article paints it. The venture was risky to begin with, and already dead in 2026. Subsidies are gone, GE didn't produce their new 18MW turbine, interest rates and construction costs went up etc. State bureaucracy is its own quagmire, the fact that federal admin turned hostile was just the cherry on top. Current deal is pretty clean and a win for both parties. US gov won't be draw…

why was the venture risky?

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of such people. The whole Smokey the bear thing was trying to teach people that for decades.

Even if we agree that natural forest fires are good, Smokey the bear is entirely reasonable. Nobody needs to go starting more fires due to negligence.

I'm saying it doesn't matter. If the forest is getting the regular burning it needs anyway someone lighting an additional fire at a different time isn't going to make any difference.

Not that you shouldn't be careful, you can get yourself hurt in a natural fire (but it shouldn't be such a large fire that it kills you). Leave no trace should be your goal. Even if fire itself is something that doesn't matter, there are lots of other parts of leave no trace that that will also result in less fires.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#749
post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing we have called "democracy" for the past three hundred or so years is basically just shadow government by whoever has the deepest pockets to influence public opinion with propaganda and pay politicians to do what they want. The politicians get blamed and cycled out while everything continues as before.

If that were true Hillary Clinton would have been president.

She won the popular vote by a mile, he won the electoral vote. Some would say she should have been.

Re: US strikes $1.2B deal to pay German firm to halt offshore wind projects

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" is referring to the US federal government, elected by the US population, and which has (and is using) massive levers to kneecap development of renewable energy sources. Some internet commentators may wish to unhelpfully point out that no matter the US federal efforts, renewable development will always be above literal zero , and so "we haven't stopped." But it's not a very useful contribution to the conversation…

I want to know whether Trump has legal authority to this money for this purpose. If it was money directed by Congress for clean energy, then no.

“who’s going to stop me?”
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