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U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

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Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#191

Post by order-matters »

WarmWash wrote: post #132
glaslong wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So perhaps we'll never get to a better healthcare+insurance market (nee "Free") through government, but eventually we will just all work in healthcare, and barter our nursing and dental skills in secret away from the insurance coders.

There will never be a better healthcare because the true cost of fixing a body more often than not far exceeds the value that body produces. People run to dismiss this with "well we need a different system then", but the problem is a fundamental one on par with "eating your cake and having it too". The only way to get as close as possible to "good" healthcare is to have enough money to pay for everything out of pocke…

> the true cost of fixing a body more often than not far exceeds the value that body produces

i softly agree but also think that a body does not need to generate value to pay for the costs in order for the whole process to sustain itself. Monitoring the stars for asteroids heading towards earth provides no market value, for example, but we can still afford to do it. so it's a matter of cost and available expenditure. the market is not net 0, so its possible to generate enough value to have enough to afford healthcare as an expense as a society

what are the costs of fixing a body? The residency pipeline is a bottleneck on labor, but assuming that gets sorted out and AI is capable of guiding any reasonable person through the process, why cant the cost of labor for a doctor drop dramatically?

i would guess limited resources are the biggest blockage, but i dont know how to break down a $20k hospital bill for giving birth into its actual costs. its hard to believe that really needs to be $20k.

I actually think its the opposite. there is so much friction with healthcare and the process of healing is slow enough that costs are inflated because the overall operating cost for the entire facility including rent, ER, having people on standby, who knows what else, all need to be recovered through whatever volume they process and they arent processing as quickly as the resources are able.

healthcare needs do not subscribe to a neat work schedule, and so we have to pay a lot of market prices to have the right availability at all times. but thats not a true cost, it is a result of accounting and underutilization

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#192

Post by jmalicki »

vlovich123 wrote: post #139
twosdai wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both? I don't think error bars and waiting to release data until more accurate are mutually exclusive.

That’s what I meant. There should be error bars to reflect uncertainty of the inherent data, but they should wait until all the data that could change things comes in rather than using projections which always drastically change

No, they shouldn't. Timely estimates as to the best knowledge of our current situation is extremely important for decision making under uncertainty.

If the error bars are large, that is important information to know.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#193

Post by gf263 »

okdood64 wrote: post #189
Waterluvian wrote: post #174

Meanwhile Canada is up 75,000 jobs in July. Can't wait to see the next tantrum America throws our way. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-jobs-july-2026-9.729...

Sorry, what's the connection here?

What’s the connection between the two most intertwined economies on planet earth?

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#194

Post by eru »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #98
eru wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can move to Singapore, if you want a better healthcare sector. (The UK spends very roughly half of what the US spends on healthcare in terms of percentage of GDP. That's total (public plus private) expenditure. Singapore spends very roughtly half of what the UK spends by the same measure. Health outcomes amongst the three countries are comparable. If anything, Singapore is healthier.)

Europe is also excellent in my experience, specifically Portugal and Spain. My health insurance cost for a family of four in Spain is ~$2k/year as someone on a visa. In the US on an employer plan, it was ~$20k/year (premiums, copays, etc).

A quick search suggests that Spain spends around 9.3% of gdp on healthcare. The UK spends around 10.9%. Singapore is around 5.5%.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#195

Post by amelius »

astro1234 wrote: post #105

As a data scientist it is very frustrating to see a consistent lack of error bars on these numbers or any discussion about the magnitude of uncertainty around them by all news reports every time these numbers get released

Yes they should have said 23.0 * 10^3.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#196

Post by eru »

asa123 wrote: post #109
toomuchtodo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is also excellent in my experience, specifically Portugal and Spain. My health insurance cost for a family of four in Spain is ~$2k/year as someone on a visa. In the US on an employer plan, it was ~$20k/year (premiums, copays, etc).

I think the commenter you responded to filtered first for countries with outcomes better or exceeding the US? Though I’m not sure Portugal and Spain automatically fall into that category

Oh, I picked Singapore, because I moved here. I picked US because that was the topic under discussion. And Britain because the parent comment talked about 'free' healthcare.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#197

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

gwerbin wrote: post #58
gruez wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As far as the government is concerned if you have been looking for a job for so long and/or are so discouraged that you stop looking, then you are no longer "unemployed" since you are not looking for a job. > ... >When you read headlines of companies laying off thousands of employees, that's real. When the government says they've retroactively adjusted their seasonally adjusted fake news, then not so much. The BLS k…

At this point it's fair to doubt just about any claim or number that comes out of the federal government. I'm sure there are still thousands of honest researchers and professionals at all levels of the executive branch, but over the past year so many of them have been pushed out and so many more have been under pressure to produce only politically-approved output, that the federal government is becoming increasingly…

> over the past year so many [federal employees] have been pushed out and so many more have been under pressure to produce only politically-approved output

This is the most obvious point in favor of this perspective, especially as it being an escalation by the current president and his administration. It hardly even seems to be a cynical take. At least, the cynicism is being used appropriately, as a tool to guide one's thoughts rather than being the entire argument.

One can look at the DOGE cuts, tally up the numbers, and see for themself that the stated reason (desired reduction of spending that is orders of magnitude higher than what they've actually cut) can't be the actual reason for these cuts. Coupled with the... less than candid statements from this administration about anything and everything the past 17 months (hey, has anyone heard about these "Epstein files"?), the most logical conclusion is that they are deceptive whenever it suits them. And yes, even the nominally-objective numbers need to come attached with a reason to be trusted; we already know a litany of ways they can be manipulated (meaning they are indeed "nominally" objective, and have been for a long time); they can't be reasonably taken at face value.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#198

Post by eru »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #110
eru wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can move to Singapore, if you want a better healthcare sector. (The UK spends very roughly half of what the US spends on healthcare in terms of percentage of GDP. That's total (public plus private) expenditure. Singapore spends very roughtly half of what the UK spends by the same measure. Health outcomes amongst the three countries are comparable. If anything, Singapore is healthier.)

Singapore has severe consequences for executives who violate the public trust. That makes it hard for sociopaths to rig the system for the elites.

Maybe. Though Americans are free to vote for politicians who make similar laws, too.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#199

Post by logicchains »

eru wrote: post #93
glaslong wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So perhaps we'll never get to a better healthcare+insurance market (nee "Free") through government, but eventually we will just all work in healthcare, and barter our nursing and dental skills in secret away from the insurance coders.

You can move to Singapore, if you want a better healthcare sector. (The UK spends very roughly half of what the US spends on healthcare in terms of percentage of GDP. That's total (public plus private) expenditure. Singapore spends very roughtly half of what the UK spends by the same measure. Health outcomes amongst the three countries are comparable. If anything, Singapore is healthier.)

The US has around 4x the obesity rate of Singapore, which significantly reduces healthcare costs.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#200

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

gruez wrote: post #48
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #38

These jobs lost/gained and unemployment statistics, especially on a monthly basis, and when the numbers are so small, are just noise. Seasonal adjustments alone (baseline assumptions on how many people should be employed) make them meaningless, as does the government definition of being unemployed or looking for work. As far as the government is concerned if you have been looking for a job for so long and/or are so d…

>As far as the government is concerned if you have been looking for a job for so long and/or are so discouraged that you stop looking, then you are no longer "unemployed" since you are not looking for a job. > ... >When you read headlines of companies laying off thousands of employees, that's real. When the government says they've retroactively adjusted their seasonally adjusted fake news, then not so much. The BLS k…

> You don't see the irony here with what you're doing?

Sorry, is OP the POTUS, speaking with Presidential authority and threatening federal employees with termination of employment for their political beliefs? The fact you think they're wrong is not a reason to equate their comment to Trump's actions.

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