I'm worried about taste because to me it seems like something like taste would be the best thing for a ML model.
Taste Is All That's Left
421–430 of 573 posts
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and this post will go down as my not-the-proudest, however, I take your criticism to heart—although not personally—and strive to improve. I just do not understand why people - even when actively denying LLM usage - use the fucking em dash. I don't care if it is the "right" thing to use there. The character has been associated with slop. Why do you keep using it without even just acknowledging that you did. Just use…
Em dashes are mine. I will use them whether they have been appropriated by LLMs or not. I used to use commas in their place. That resulted in a much more dense post layout and far less readable text. FWIW I actually use three dashes (-) and my blog's build system transforms those into em dashes. This is not a defense, but nor is "this character is associated with slop" an argument. Yes LLMs use lots of words, phrases…
You're misunderstanding me. It's not an argument. I have no strong opinions about it.
I am telling you how people perceive it. You can (and should!) use that information however you like, but don't mistake this as some sort of opinion thing.
I've observed the world. I believe it operates like this. Feel free to discard if you have data that suggests it operates otherwise.
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Don't mistake my delivery of that for personal outrage about you or that unicode character.
I just get very annoyed when I see systems not working optimally with failure modes that to me seem.. dumb.
If you allow me to quote the LLM:
> He isn't trying to police notashelf's writing. He doesn't care about notashelf's writing! He is just a guy who noticed a pothole in the road, pointed it out, and is now watching in pure fascination as people fiercely defend their God-given right to drive their cars straight into it.
Thanks, gemini.
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#423We've been talking about taste for a year now as it relates to AI, so I'm going to counterpoint it: if competitors can reproduce your features, UX, and visual decisions within days, your taste is not really an advantage. How many apps implemented pull down to refresh once one person did it? How many people even remember (or care) whose taste spawned that UX pattern? [1] AI is not inaugurating an age of taste. It is s…
Anyone can push the button, but not everyone can discern whether the result is a good one or not. That skill is either learned or to some extent inherent in one’s abilities.
My example I’ve been thinking about is: what will be the first new, big programming language in the age of LLMs? Theoretically, anyone could go out and make it right now. The skills and expertise required are well-encoded within all of the frontier models. The thing is, without taste, the language devolves to a useless state rather quickly. On smaller scales, I’ve seen this with API design and even object oriented design. I’ve also seen it in AI generated images and music: devoid of taste, and numbingly facile and generic.
Edit: not to toot my own horn, but “numbingly facile and generic” funny enough is probably a phrase that an LLM would never create without significant prompting to refine writing style.
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#424For those keeping track, this is now (at least) the third wholly or partially AI-generated article on the theme of "taste" as enduring source of human comparative advantage to hit the HN front page. Previously: Taste in the age of AI and LLMs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47677241 You Had No Taste Before AI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45288551
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just do not comprehend how that can be the hill people choose to die on. Like.. I get it. It's wrong. It feels wrong to give the AI nonsense just an inch and all. But in the grand scheme of things, it's just highly ineffective dogmatism that makes people unheard, miserable and just further increases struggle. Which people are free to do, in the same way that I am free to purposefully drop a massive hammer on my foo…
If you stop doing something right, because of fear, then the terrorists win.
a) Using some other horizontal line is not in the class of "wrong" that would warrant this sort of reaction. You're debating the pixel count. Not the object. The aspect ratio of it.
b) If you're acting out of fear that's dumb, yes. If you however simply pick your battles for efficiency, that's not "the terrorists win". That's "you win" instead of "you loose due to attrition".
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I've also consulted with the LLM regarding the "class of wrong" thing, because I thought it might be not quite clear.
So what I meant by that is that it's not giving up actual words or dumbing down your sentences. Just swapping out a character that is practically indistiguishable for the untrained eye.
Hell, whole classes of social engineering attacks rely on that very property.
I know I know. "Wehret den Anfängen". Slippery slope.
But those are insane as a default reaction to everything.
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I get it. SV sucks. HN sucks. The world sucks. Can't let it also take this little thing. If it can take all the big things, then at least it won't take this tiny tidbit.
Emotionally, I get it.
But that's not how you make rational decisions. Nor is it how we would win.
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#426For those keeping track, this is now (at least) the third wholly or partially AI-generated article on the theme of "taste" as enduring source of human comparative advantage to hit the HN front page. Previously: Taste in the age of AI and LLMs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47677241 You Had No Taste Before AI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45288551
We are at the point, when there is too much cognitive energy needed to discern writing from human, human ai assisted and all ai. Should we know make mistakes on purpose to avoid being labelled as ai slop? :)
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#427"Taste" is just knowledge. Advanced knowledge. Knowledge that is not easily put into words.
This is another restatement that knowledge, in a human head, is the determining factor of production, over land, labor and capital. This a post-capitalist argument that's been made for over 30 years (Peter Drucker in his 1993 book is my favorite), and it's been at least somewhat true even back to the 70s, just increasingly so as AI takes off.
The author's sidebar of AI or even cloud computing "taking ownership of the means of production away from workers" is entirely misunderstanding how the modern economy operates and shows how badly we need a new Marx (and Keynes, Schumpeter, or Drucker) since his analysis doesn't seem to provide the same analytical value in late capitalism. Renting vs. owning the means of production is now entirely a function of knowledge of the entrepreneurs (and their team).
Capital is ubiquitous now and is desperate for return - it remains powerful but is not all-powerful. We've had years of near-low interest rates and even after COVID inflation, they're still historically low. It is far more accessible to entrepreneurs than it has ever been in history, between grants, loans, subsidies, private equity, angels, crowdfunding, donations, etc. It's practically a cliche that billions in capital can be wasted on an initiative because the people involved had no idea what they were doing. I don't think AI changes that.
We don't need to rent our tokens, we can run open models on our local rigs (which still requires capital). We don't need to rent our servers, we can buy, rack and stack them on our own. Which we choose is fentirely dependent on the knowledge we have. If we don't know how to run an AI rig, we must rent it. If we don't know how to run a server, we must rent it. etc.
There are several walls driven by taste - Design - Testing - Production - Security - Scalability
In particular, the author seems confused on what "production" is. Production is still the wall. There was a joke on X the other day:
"I vibe coded my dream app! Try it out here: http://localhost:8080/coolapp"
Software running in production is not tokens. I'm sure properly prompted AI can deploy and run simple software in production but this requires a lot of knowledge to prompt to constrain it to run in a secure, scalable, adaptable way as complexity, scale, and capability grows.
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
Em dashes are mine. I will use them whether they have been appropriated by LLMs or not. I used to use commas in their place. That resulted in a much more dense post layout and far less readable text. FWIW I actually use three dashes (-) and my blog's build system transforms those into em dashes. This is not a defense, but nor is "this character is associated with slop" an argument. Yes LLMs use lots of words, phrases…
> This is not a defense, but nor is "this character is associated with slop" an argument. You're misunderstanding me. It's not an argument. I have no strong opinions about it. I am telling you how people perceive it. You can (and should!) use that information however you like, but don't mistake this as some sort of opinion thing. I've observed the world. I believe it operates like this. Feel free to discard if you ha…
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
People that don't communicate well can't fix that with AI. Turning one line of confusing thoughts into a 30 lines text make it worse, not better.
And mathematicians who don't understand mathematical theory can't use calculators to write proofs. Focus on the content and the idea; not how it was written.
Re: Taste Is All That's Left
#430For those keeping track, this is now (at least) the third wholly or partially AI-generated article on the theme of "taste" as enduring source of human comparative advantage to hit the HN front page. Previously: Taste in the age of AI and LLMs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47677241 You Had No Taste Before AI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45288551
Isn't aesthetic a better word for this?