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I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

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Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#191

Post by jrmg »

tremon wrote: post #190
Kirby64 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you want all cables to be thick, $60, and cap out at 1 meter long, this is not a reasonable standard. 480mbps USB-C is perfectly adequate for many applications. Likewise for 60W cables.

That's still an astonishing design failure: different ports have different connectors for a reason. Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs? There is zero reason why 480mbps USB-C should exist when we already had 480mbps USB-A, except for misguided designers prioritizing aesthetics over usability.

Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs?

This isn’t a great example because, on the ‘other side', car chargers also have different size cables between the ‘charger’ (EVSE) and the car, with the same plug used on them all (especially with NACS, which doesn’t even differentiate between AC and DC plugs). They rely on negotiation to tell the car how much power it can draw. No-one complains about this.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#192

Post by tremon »

godelski wrote: post #122
Kirby64 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-A has many variants and we don’t call it a different connector. Heck, USB-B and micro USB both have 3.0 variants that are physically different and we don’t call them something different either. I don’t see the problem here. This is just semantics, especially when they aren’t even labeled period… people just see a cable and will try plugging it in.

> USB-A has many variants > especially when they aren’t even labeled period What are you talking about? USB-A is color coded. You'll frequently see white and blue. Admittedly this is harder with USB-C because the size, but I don't see why we can't label these things. Not labeling just leads to confusion and fraud. https://www.corsair.com/us/en/explorer/diy-builder/storage/u...

> You'll frequently see white and blue

I've never seen white; in order of prevalence, I've seen black, blue, red, and yellow. But such colour coding is not standardized, every manufacturer is free to choose their own rainbow.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#193

Post by jaymmartin »

maccard wrote: post #189
pimterry wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable. This would completely defeat the point. There is a range of needs for cables. Some devices have simple needs for power/data transfer/extra functionality, and some devices have more. A $3 USB-powered lamp does not need a cable for gigabit data transfer and 100W charging - this cable would be more expensive than the product. Similarly, new features & perf…

But the current situation is I can take two devices with a USB C connector, connect them with a USB c cable, and they won’t work. Is that really better?

Yes. This is the worst case scenario: You don't have the required cable.

In an alternative world with no unified connector, you also likely don't have the required cable. The result is the same.

It's just that in this world, the worst case scenario happens a lot less. There is often a fallback when you don't have the required cable and you get some functionality. But, most people most of the time the cable they have does what is needed.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#194

Post by pimterry »

maccard wrote: post #189
pimterry wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable. This would completely defeat the point. There is a range of needs for cables. Some devices have simple needs for power/data transfer/extra functionality, and some devices have more. A $3 USB-powered lamp does not need a cable for gigabit data transfer and 100W charging - this cable would be more expensive than the product. Similarly, new features & perf…

But the current situation is I can take two devices with a USB C connector, connect them with a USB c cable, and they won’t work. Is that really better?

In almost all cases they will work, just slowly. There's always some power, and almost always some data (power-without-data cables exist, but they're very rare, mostly a specialist security thing).

If the power isn't enough to power a device, that's annoying, but it's strictly better than when we had a unique power cable per-device. We've replaced "carry a charger per device" with "carry one charger for your highest power device, and it can do everything else too". And even with just a low-power cable you can usually trickle-charge overnight or something.

The only optional feature you'll run into that may or may not work at all is monitor support. Would it be better to have a whole different USB-C2 spec which requires display support (and so is significantly more expensive)? If the connector is the same you have the same problem (it's just labelling) and if it's not that sounds like you've just invented display cables which your monitor almost certainly supports today anyway.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#195

Post by joshstrange »

Casteil wrote: post #55
joshstrange wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$45 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DYJL5Z67 This is the one I use and I quite like it. I've had it for a little over a year and a half. I used it to sort (or trash) all my cables and to test new incoming cables.

I just got this one a few days ago so it's kinda weird I've seen it mentioned or posted about multiple times since. Guerrilla marketing? Anyway, it's definitely better than having nothing, and tests resistance as well. I tossed a couple low value/duplicate/high resistance cables because I've got too many just lying around causing clutter. Also helped 'confirm' my good (e.g. TB4+) cables that weren't labeled clearly a…

> Guerrilla marketing?

Nope, or if so my royalty/referral checks never showed up :)

I bought mine back in March of last year and used it to "process" all my cables and was just a happy customer. I've been watching this space (cable testers) for years (on and off) and wasn't interested in the "raw circuit board with led"-versions so once a nicer version came out at a price point I found tolerable I got one.

It's nice to have all my cables organized now (h/t to Akro mills bins, those are a dangerous rabbit hole) and now instead of just buying a new cable [0] when I need one I can go grab one that matches the specs I need.

[0] Call it wasteful, call it lazy, but when faced with "I have a cable that fits the hole and is the right length but I don't know what it's capabilities are" I would often just buy a new cable with the specs I needed/wanted rather than using an "unknown" cable.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#196

Post by Whitespace »

rationalist wrote: post #6
xbmcuser wrote: post #2

LTT has created true spec cables with the actual spec mentioned on the cables but they can not keep up with demand despite being expensive get sold out as soon as new stock comes in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfovjw7Ts_U&t=974s

By chance, has anyone tested Cable Matters' cables? I just bought a couple of their Thunderbolt™ 5 cables. They seem like a reputable company that would make their cables true-to-spec. Thanks in advance!

I have some that I got to connect to my MBP, which supports TB5. Unfortunately my MSI MPG 321URX doesn't properly support it, so half of the time the DisplayPort over USB negotiation doesn't work, and the monitor doesn't connect properly.

Apparently the majority of non-TB devices will have trouble with it. I can't even use the cable to charge my phone when attached to a wall wart!

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#197

Post by maccard »

jaymmartin wrote: post #193
maccard wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the current situation is I can take two devices with a USB C connector, connect them with a USB c cable, and they won’t work. Is that really better?

Yes. This is the worst case scenario: You don't have the required cable. In an alternative world with no unified connector, you also likely don't have the required cable. The result is the same. It's just that in this world, the worst case scenario happens a lot less. There is often a fallback when you don't have the required cable and you get some functionality. But, most people most of the time the cable they have…

In the alternative world I use the cable that came with the device and I can tell apart from the other 10 black cables.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#198

Post by sokoloff »

tremon wrote: post #190
Kirby64 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you want all cables to be thick, $60, and cap out at 1 meter long, this is not a reasonable standard. 480mbps USB-C is perfectly adequate for many applications. Likewise for 60W cables.

That's still an astonishing design failure: different ports have different connectors for a reason. Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs? There is zero reason why 480mbps USB-C should exist when we already had 480mbps USB-A, except for misguided designers prioritizing aesthetics over usability.

In a world following your proposed rules, we’d never get to 480Mbps USB-A, because we already had 4-wire 12Mbps USB-A ports with just D+/D- and power and creating 480Mbps USB-A from that would be “an astonishing design failure: different ports have different connectors for a reason” and not all 12Mbps capable USB-A cables would support the 480Mbps spec.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#199

Post by po1nt »

jrmg wrote: post #191
tremon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still an astonishing design failure: different ports have different connectors for a reason. Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs? There is zero reason why 480mbps USB-C should exist when we already had 480mbps USB-A, except for misguided designers prioritizing aesthetics over usability.

Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs? This isn’t a great example because, on the ‘other side', car chargers also have different size cables between the ‘charger’ (EVSE) and the car, with the same plug used on them all (especially with NACS, which doesn’t even differentiate between AC and DC plugs). They rely on negotiation to tell th…

We are lucky we don't need to transfer (so much) data over these. Just imagine looking for Gen 2x2 or Gen 2 SuperSpeed charging station.

Re: I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them

#200

Post by jauntywundrkind »

tremon wrote: post #190
Kirby64 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you want all cables to be thick, $60, and cap out at 1 meter long, this is not a reasonable standard. 480mbps USB-C is perfectly adequate for many applications. Likewise for 60W cables.

That's still an astonishing design failure: different ports have different connectors for a reason. Can you imagine a what would have happened if the car charging infrastructure would have used your regular 120/230V plugs? There is zero reason why 480mbps USB-C should exist when we already had 480mbps USB-A, except for misguided designers prioritizing aesthetics over usability.

Except usb-c will have a baseline level if working even with your very lightweight cheap flexible usb2 60w cable.

Adding connectors to obstruct functionality, to make each specific use physically incompatible with every other use, was hell. No thanks.

Usb-c rocks, it's flexibility is amazing, and anytime you need a serious business use, good cables are well labelled. This is just yet another HN lightning rod issue where all the very narrowly intolerant particular people come out in hordes, but it's just not really an issue. And everyone else is living much more happily.

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