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I won't read LLM authored fiction

mccormick.cx

81–90 of 118 posts

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#81
post #29

I won't (if I know) either, but for me it's because a very big part of reading fiction or enjoying any art is that you have a relationship of a kind with its creator. When a passage surprises me or a song lifts me or a painting inspires me it's partly because I'm amazed that someone was able to do that, and that they were able to reach me like that. Everyone borrows or steals from prior art but I'm still amazed by th…

But your view of art is based on who you “think” made it. So if someone lies about who made the art your views on the art changed. That’s a strange position that doesn’t make sense to me.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#82
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in why you feel like this. Do you take this action because you can't trust traditional channels (blogs, established tradpub authors, Goodreads et al) to self-curate LLM writing out of the pool of available literature you would normally be aware of?

Yeah I think it boils down to trust issues. I can't know how the text was created. Anything created before 2023 I know that at least a human had to invest a significant amount of time to produce the story. Maybe I'm a bit too reactionary though. Thinking about it some more I would absolutely read something if it was recommended by a trusted source (which in my case is almost always a human I know in the physical worl…

I get the sentiment completely. I am actually doing what you're thinking: if it didn't come from my List Of People Who Know Of What They Speak I want nothing to do with it.

We really have gone full circle! It's quite upsetting.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#83
post #16

That is a perfectly valid opinion and POV to have. While I don't share it personally, I can totally understand why one has it. That does not change, that I personally actually do not care the slightest about the question of who or what wrote a novel. But that is just me, having studied literatur and fallen into a school of literary studies that held Roland Barthes' claim of the death of the author [1] in high regard.…

> What does the author wanted to tell us with this story." Because -> The author never wrote that down. And deriving their intentions from a fictional text felt just like making shit up It’s an exercise in engaging intellectually with the work. It’s not about knowing for a fact what the author wanted to communicate. Art is about engaging with human emotions and thoughts, not about deriving specific facts.

> Art is about engaging with human emotions and thoughts

Exactly. Still, that does actually not contradict what I wrote. You can still do this from a viewpoint of Structuralism, Formalism, Reader Centric Schools of Interpretation and Author Centric Schools of Interpretation.

Non of those are less intellectually" engaging with the work. Differently - and in my personal opinion more or less intellectually rewarding - yes. But not less or more.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#84
post #58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There will come a time, very soon, where you wont be able to tell the difference, and what then? We'll stop buying new books, sticking to things written before 2022.

Think about what you’re saying for a moment. Play that scenario out in your head.

... Is that so difficult to imagine?

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#85

That is a perfectly valid opinion and POV to have. While I don't share it personally, I can totally understand why one has it. That does not change, that I personally actually do not care the slightest about the question of who or what wrote a novel. But that is just me, having studied literatur and fallen into a school of literary studies that held Roland Barthes' claim of the death of the author [1] in high regard.…

> I hated the question of teachers asking: "What does the author wanted to tell us with this story." Because -> The author never wrote that down. And deriving their intentions from a fictional text felt just like making shit up. You either hit the interpretation of your teacher or received a bad grade. I think this might be the most pernicious strain of anti-intellectualism online: the idea that there is no subtext,…

> That's not at all what Barthes was saying; you've misunderstood him.

Thanks for misrepresenting me. Or willfully miunderstanding me. But hey. No qualms here.

Just that I never said: > the idea that there is no subtext, that a text only communicates exactly what it lays out on the surface level.

Not sure though, what made you read that into my writing (and I am aware of the ironiy here). I actually read Barthes. And not only him. I actually used him and his ways of looking, together with thelikes of Genette and others when doing my thesis work (and before).

Because their depth and their way of looking at the depth within text was what fascinated me.

I always compared them to trying to understand the bones, the organs, the muscles and sinues of a text, compared to a surface level way we were taught in school. Combine that with a more culturally anthropologic way of looking at topics in literature and outside of it, more like Focault did (as an example) and my time in university was actually one that I cherrish deeply.

Edit: > Your teachers weren't trying to get you to fix on the one perfect interpretation, because that idea (Barthes would agree) doesn't really make sense. Instead, they wanted you to interpret, explain, and justify in a complex and ambiguous space.

I have to disagree here. My university teachers mostly did. In school, my experience sadly was quite different. In school there was in most cases and with most teachers only one correct way of interpreting a work of literature. Regardless how well you argued your interpretation.

But I actually love the discussion. Thanks for engaging my opinion.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#86
post #29

I won't (if I know) either, but for me it's because a very big part of reading fiction or enjoying any art is that you have a relationship of a kind with its creator. When a passage surprises me or a song lifts me or a painting inspires me it's partly because I'm amazed that someone was able to do that, and that they were able to reach me like that. Everyone borrows or steals from prior art but I'm still amazed by th…

But your view of art is based on who you “think” made it. So if someone lies about who made the art your views on the art changed. That’s a strange position that doesn’t make sense to me.

Context can very easily enrich or ruin nearly anything, but especially creative expression. I'm surprised this is seen as strange.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#87
post #49
post #4

Afaik I have yet to encounter LLM fiction, but I have seen plenty of AI generated music and it truly disgusts me. Each to their own but to me a large part of music was always the life experience of the person making it. I'm listening to their life, their love, their pain in music form. Without an interesting human behind it, art loses all magic to me. That's why it's beyond annoying that my own brother absolutely lov…

I have been listening to a whole lot of AI music and it is often better than human generated. I foresee an immense unavoidable shift in the music industry due to this. It is already impossible to distinguish what is AI and and what is human generated music.

Can you share a playlist or something so we can see?

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#88

I think many people forget that the vast majority of books aren't high art. Your mind goes to Heinlein, Arthur C. Clarke, N.K. Jemsin, or Pratchett. My mind goes to Ice Planet Barbarians[0] or Crimson Worlds[1] (both written by actual humans, but I think they are good representations of their genres) There are so many books in the romantasy genre specifically that could be just mad libs templates for AI Generated boo…

You're underselling those books and overselling AI; people have tried generating romantasy and power fantasies, and it's very obvious that it's not up to par.

People want tropes, sure, but that's not the same as wanting trash; our culture is built on satisfying narratives treading well-worn paths, and there's a skill to it. Pratchett, for example, was only able to do what he did because he was deliberately playing with existing expectations; his work wouldn't exist without the stuff you denigrate to build off.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#89
post #29

I won't (if I know) either, but for me it's because a very big part of reading fiction or enjoying any art is that you have a relationship of a kind with its creator. When a passage surprises me or a song lifts me or a painting inspires me it's partly because I'm amazed that someone was able to do that, and that they were able to reach me like that. Everyone borrows or steals from prior art but I'm still amazed by th…

Thing is, I started appreciating this way of looking at art only after reading anti-LLM arguments, and I am a bit angry at myself for not feeling it during the pre-LLM decades of my life, which would have been much enriched. There is this other way of looking at art (which probably dominated my worldview) where you don't care much about where it comes from. An extreme example is reading Harry Potter fanfiction, which…

So HPMOR and friends prove that we don't need to worry about the authorship, and focus on the experience?

It makes sense, but is the opposite of the OP.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is, I started appreciating this way of looking at art only after reading anti-LLM arguments, and I am a bit angry at myself for not feeling it during the pre-LLM decades of my life, which would have been much enriched. There is this other way of looking at art (which probably dominated my worldview) where you don't care much about where it comes from. An extreme example is reading Harry Potter fanfiction, which…

So HPMOR and friends prove that we don't need to worry about the authorship, and focus on the experience? It makes sense, but is the opposite of the OP.

HPMOR is one of those fanfics which make you feel a strong connection to the author, he really poured his soul into it ("rare vitamins" as he put it [1]), the good and the bad, kinda the exception that proves the rule. Probably this is why it was so successful.

[1] https://hpmor.com/notes/progress-14-05-01/

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