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Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

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Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#331

Post by [deleted] »

AustinDev wrote: post #210
doginasuit wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another potential takeaway is that the models all gathering around the same point supports the idea that there is a ceiling to LLM capability.

They always all gather around the same spot then that spot moves every 6-9 months. I think the clustering is more likely evidence of distillation. I don't personally think distillation is a bad thing. If the LLM providers can distill all of human output into their models for 'free'. I don't think distilling a model from the output of those models is morally wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#332

Post by senordevnyc »

ericd wrote: post #102
AlexandrB wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VCs are footing the bill for that $200 subscription.

They have something like 80% gross margins, are at a $100B/yr ARR, and are growing at 10x per year... If that keeps up, they're going to be doing more revenue than Google in a year ($400B ARR, 20% per year growth)

Where did that $100B figure come from? I thought they were at ~10B at the end of 2025, so they're either not at 100B yet, or they're growing way faster than 10x / year.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#333

Post by LoganDark »

markasoftware wrote: post #62
LoganDark wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that 35B-A3B is much easier to run on my M4 Max (both prefill and generation)

It's well known 35b is much faster (on any hardware) and quite a bit dumber

I had no idea. Where can we learn stuff like this?

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#334

Post by whwhyb »

quirino wrote: post #26

A couple days ago they had published an overall score of 53 for this model, but that was removed and today it returned with a score of 56. I wasn't able to find an explanation from them. Anyone knows what happened?

according to them:

> launch traffic hit our public API endpoint harder than expected, causing intermittent instability.

https://x.com/QwenDevs/status/2085279963654275247

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#335

Post by cyanydeez »

vunderba wrote: post #274
cyanydeez wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

recommend opencode w/qwen 35B or 27B with MTP. My secret sauce is to use LLAMAcpp's reasoning-budget and reasoning-message that trigger cut off to overthinking with a message that says to either us subagents or compress the context. opencode's dynamic context pruning plugin can get you pretty far into the stratosphere.

> My secret sauce is to use LLAMAcpp's reasoning-budget and reasoning-message that trigger cut off to overthinking with a message that says to either us subagents or compress the context Thanks for the tip - I like this a lot. I remember having to do a lot of tweaking to curtail Qwen QwQ-32b when it would go down an endless psychotic recursive reasoning loops as part of its "chain of reasoning."

I tailored the agent to ao both its system prompt and budget-message align.

I havent yet tailored the pruning messages, but mostly it works.

Reasoning budget can also be set by client, so potentially smarter.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#336

Post by ethbr1 »

aliasxneo wrote: post #253
monster_truck wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I don't think many have internalized is that China has been as good or better for quite a while now (long before anyone was pointing distillation fingers) and enough people have finally tried it for themselves that the understanding has reached critical mass and the careful narrative of american companies is collapsing. When I finally put $15 into Deepseek and it beat the brakes off Codex 5.5 on multiple ra…

And I had the opposite experience. It's a really interesting phenomenon that I can't really explain. My co-founder swears by Deepseek and yet just the other day we were conversing and he was telling me about some of the issues with the way the AI was behaving and trying to show off the cool workarounds he came up with to limit it. I was like, "Interesting, yeah, I've literally never had that problem." I suspect that…

{Black box} + {sunk financial/time cost} + {ambiguous rankings} + {marketing} = {irrational tribal loyalty}

On reddit et al., people talk about LLM brands like their sports teams.

I think the first-party ecosystem moats they're all trying to build are exacerbating this tendency, as now people have a lot of learning time sunk in a company-specific option.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#337

Post by ThunderSizzle »

surgical_fire wrote: post #329
kadushka wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost is absolutely an issue here - my time is worth approximately $1000/day, so if a slightly worse model wastes one more hour of my time a day than the best model, it costs the company >$2k/mo. Fortunately my employer understands this well and encourages me to use the best models as much as I can.

This reply must have cost dozens of dollars.

This must be the new linked in strat. What I learned about using the best model after talking to a homeless person.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#338

Post by quadruple »

colingauvin wrote: post #182
tomComb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an annoying personality I was with you until there. Qwen and the OpenAI models are great, aggressive agents, but they’re not as good as the anthropic models for human interaction. They just don’t have the subtlety, understanding, or attention to detail.

Claude 4.5/4.6 - absolutely agree. Fable 5? From my (limited) testing, also reasonable to interact with. Opus 4.7/4.8/5? Absolutely smug and antagonistic and preachy. I'm constantly fighting with it to stop fighting me and accept that I occasionally know better. It's really frustrating to spend so many tokens of such an expensive model arguing with it.

yeah, it's honestly amazing just how badly anthropic managed to screw up something in claude after 4.6. its night and day, and every time I see claude doing something stupid, i instantly realize I was accidentally on Opus 5

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#339

Post by sonic45132 »

MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #309
monster_truck wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! The only reason I'm not using it more is because it's summertime. I'm not in any hurry. Setting the memory to "fast timings" is good for 8-12% more tokens/second if you haven't tried yet. I miss the slightly older days of AMD when powerplay tables were unlocked and we could configure the timings and voltages manually, there's another 30% being left on the table ez

What do you mean by 'Setting the memory to "fast timings"'? The only runtime I can get working for my GPUs is llama.cpp, which I haven't seen anything like that in its argument set. My perusal of the options for vllm and sglang didn't suggest anything similar either before failing miserably.

I think they are referring to the AMD drivers on windows, under the overclocking section you can enable fast memory timings. Not sure if this sort of thing is exposed on linux.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#340

Post by tempest_ »

aenis wrote: post #154
tempest_ wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont love it. Opus 5 is just a token burner. I use fable plan and spawn opus 4.8 workflows which seems to work alright.

I suspect it must depend on how one manages their codebase - wrt to docs, ADRs, and general guardrails. For me it is not great for design work - Fable is way better, and 4.8 was conservative and thus better (Opus 5 seems to jump to conclusions far more eagerly). But for overnight builds, where I give it 8hrs worth of work on LLDs created by Fable - its great. Where Opus 4.8 would often lose the plot and stop for ques…

Designs, docs, the claims it makes, ignores instructions, "defers" things constantly leaving incomplete work.

Maybe I am "holding it wrong"(tm) but I find it frustrating to work with.

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