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AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

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Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this works out from a cost/silicon perspective. Small models already run pretty well in software (since the weights fit in cache) and big models require silicon area proportional to the size of weights. On a mobile device putting a chip like this is competing directly in BOM and power against a whole lot more l3 cache, and the l3 cache makes everything faster

My question is what changes about LLM use cases when you’re getting 1000 tok/s? Models in silicon might dramatically change how we think about them.

It's pretty clear if you see what's happening on current phones.

Autocorrect that works. Reply suggestions that almost work, just need to be tad more accurate (probably more of a data access issue than model) and a tad faster to look completely seamless. Screenshots with automated text detection and OCR and automatic interpretation (different suggested actions for when something on the picture looks like a web link, phone number, postal address, e-mail, or QR code, or an event poster). That's just a fraction of things I saw showing up on my Samsung phone over the last 6 months.

For over a year now, you could get a much better autocorrect and spell/grammar check, and a translator all in one, if you just pasted your text to a frontier model and asked it to check for errors or translate into target language. Now imagine being able to go through a round of such checks in a 1/100 of a second. You could have this running every keystroke, and suddenly the inline autocorrect/checks would not suck anymore.

Auto-linkifying that can correct for typos and doesn't need careful regex tuning because it understands from context what is meant to be a link or not. That's just one of many obvious things possible once you get local models running fast enough. Tip of an iceberg, and the first step to imagining all the other potential uses is to let go of the two mistaken beliefs people hold on to:

1. That LLMs are about written language. They're not; ever since "multimodal models" became a thing, tokenization extended to visual and audio space, and now textual and visual and aural inputs are all just regular, first-class tokens.

2. That chatting with the models is the only optimal way for end users to interact with AI. That's just artificially limiting yourself to the space of chat-based UI.

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#473

AMD could have saved their money and used their own hardware! I've got a language model doing 60k tok/s on AMD hardware already, a Xilinx Kria K26 SOM, with the weights baked into URAM/BRAM with zero DRAM in the token loop. Same thesis as Taalas: single-stream decode is bandwidth bound, so stop fetching weights from far away. Caveats stacked high, obviously. It's 3.16M parameters (tinystories, and I also have a kevin…

1. How come you didn't make your implementation public? You could be a millionaire now. 2. Especially if AMD has the technology to do what Taalas does, it makes a ton of sense for AMD to acquire Taalas: remove them from the market. Make sure nobody else (Intel, Huawei, Alibaba, NVIDIA, etc) acquires them. It could have been a great acquisition for a rebirth of BlackBerry btw.

It will be, I'm just not happy with my blog post before making it live. The blog will have a live interactive chat and a link to the repo with the HDL.

I don't think anything I did was particularly novel, as I really just wanted to see how fast I could push a commodity FPGA to it's limit.

Scaling to an ASIC or getting into the billions of params is where the real engineering is! This was just a side project for a side project for me while the FPGA was idle

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same pitch that people make about AI today. Speed isn’t the differentiator, quality is

They are both the differentiator. AI previously provided speed but not quality. As soon as quality reached an acceptable threshold, the speed became the reigning factor. In my opinion the quality is still much lower, but speed means the cost is significantly lower also.

AI is already fast enough that human is a bottleneck. Hell, typing speed became a bottleneck like it was never before.

I mean, if an agent can do half-decent work in less time than it takes the user to prompt them (and "user" in this context is a fast touch-typist like most programmers are), it's obvious it's not the agent that's the bottleneck anymore.

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#475
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the case of Taalas the weights are physically encoded directly on the chip. It’s composed of 4-bit multiplier cells that compute all 16 possible results in parallel. The top metal wiring layer physically selects the one that corresponds to a multiplication with that cell’s constant weight, and routes it to the next layer.

Are you sure? Source? (does not seem to be https://taalas.com/the-path-to-ubiquitous-ai/ , for example)

It’s described in this patent application [0]. There’s a bit of hand waving so the HC1 might be slightly different, but the gist is the same.

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20250123802

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#476

I'm surprised neither OpenAI nor Anthropic made this move first. The Chinese open weight models are pulling ahead and commoditizing their value proposition. Baking models onto silicon would've been the next logical move to get a moat. Google is already doing this and has an experimental project on top of already having TPUs and cramming their quantized flash onto individual TPUs for inference.

They were busy buying open source frameworks and teams behind those.

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#477

My understanding is that the chip carries the neural network itself while the weights are loaded on top, so any model that uses that same network topology should be loadable on demand.

No I think you are thinking of Etched/Sohu.

Taalas' approach (at least for their demo'd product) is to bake the whole thing in completely. IIUC the optimiser can even see the weights while generating RTL. It's like there's an "uint8_t weights[] = " in the source code.

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it. I asked where Bruce Lee was born. It stated he was born in Hong Kong. I challenged it and it went further naming a hospital there. I stated he was born in San Francisco and it apologized and then said his father was a missionary traveling in America, which was also wrong. Bruce’s father was a famous Cantonese Opera singer and actor. This model had zero information right, while being fast in responding. Un…

It gave the correct answers to both questions for me: > Bruce Lee was born in San Francisco, California, USA on November 27, 1940. > Bruce Lee's father was a Chinese opera singer That being said, this is not a good test. It is a language model (a very small one), not an encyclopedia. ChatJimmy interface is just a tech demo. Without tool calling functionality we can't expect it to be factually correct.

if it's baked into silicon how can you two get different answers?

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#479
post #185
post #121

Given the fast churn of the models, how does it work out? Won’t the silicon etched model already be 1 or more versions behind by the time the silicon comes out. Though if it’s cheap enough, there certainly can be a market for cheaper model inferences.

I think this would make sense for consumer hardware, not for AI companies. AI companies constantly update/change stuff, new models come out, new requirements, etc. But if you ship an "ai-powered" dishwasher, it can come with the chip built-in to do computer vision and precisely target each spot, and will be sold as-is with no updates.

It makes fairly little sense for consumer hardware, unless you're embedding an absolutely tiny model. Since you're embedding the entire model in the chip itself, required chip size scales directly with model size. The reason they have llama3.1-8B as their model in https://chatjimmy.ai/ (their demo) is because it's very hard to do anything bigger than that, you literally start running out of physical space on the chip, and bigger chips cost money. You can't have a dishwasher using a chip the size of a B200 die to run a model you could run on a Raspberry Pi.

What's worse is that this is when it's already quantized to ~3 bits per parameter (which is fairly lobotomized). Yes, the chip will run it 1000X faster than the Raspberry Pi, but it will only be stupid faster.

Their press release explicitly lists that their HC1 puts the entire Llama 3.1 8B model on one 815 mm² TSMC N6 die, with about 53 billion transistors.

815 mm² is fucking huge. An RTX 5090 is 750 mm². A mid-to-high end consumer CPU die is something like 300 mm², with a lot of budget parts being significantly smaller than that, down to ~70 mm². Every square mm costs money.

If they upgraded from N6 to N3P they MIGHT be able to get as much as a ~35B class model on a a chip which fits in the reticle limit, maybe, probably not, because model weights aren't the only thing that needs to fit on the chip.

There are very serious issues with agentic performance in this setup, which is exactly where you would want something really fast. Their Llama 3.1 demo lists a context of 6,144, which is dramatically lower than the 131,072 Llama-3.1 supports.

Reasoning models are barely usable with contexts that short.

The reason for this is that to actually get those speeds, the KV cache needs to live in SRAM. You can't bake the KV cache into the circuitry since it... changes. They clearly don't have enough SRAM, and the problem gets worse the bigger you make the model since KV cache grows (sort of) with model dim. The longer you want to make your context, the more of your chip needs to be SRAM.

Frankly, I don't see the use-case for this tech. It's too expensive and too inflexible. Just doing what Cerebras did and making a wafer-sized chip which is mostly SRAM is a much better solution to serving LLMs at extreme speeds and you don't need to make a new chip every time a new model comes out.

Re: AMD acquires Taalas to boost inference performance by etching models in silicon

#480
post #305

Question: we currently emulate neural networks by performing matrix math in synchronous clock CPU architectures. Would it not be better to abandon synchronization and etch neuron synapses directly in silicon, keeping only the weights variable? I think some researchers are pursuing this, but I forget what the approach is called.

I don't understand what you'd etch instead of the weight? What's a neuron synapse to you that's not a weight?
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