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Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

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Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#301

Post by nimchimpsky »

monster_truck wrote: post #237
jjcm wrote: post #166

China has caught up is the main takeaway here. The SOTA models are so close that it's really hard to compare them intelligence wise - you have to get a feel for them yourself and what works for you. What I'm really excited for is the 27B model. 3.6 is still the king of local, and if 3.8 makes the same improvements it could really legitimately make local viable as a default. I'd love to run a perpetual agent on 3.8 th…

Something I don't think many have internalized is that China has been as good or better for quite a while now (long before anyone was pointing distillation fingers) and enough people have finally tried it for themselves that the understanding has reached critical mass and the careful narrative of american companies is collapsing. When I finally put $15 into Deepseek and it beat the brakes off Codex 5.5 on multiple ra…

[dead]

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#302

Post by 14u2c »

cyanydeez wrote: post #257
monster_truck wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I don't think many have internalized is that China has been as good or better for quite a while now (long before anyone was pointing distillation fingers) and enough people have finally tried it for themselves that the understanding has reached critical mass and the careful narrative of american companies is collapsing. When I finally put $15 into Deepseek and it beat the brakes off Codex 5.5 on multiple ra…

I think americans assume when they see a chinese or asian person working at an american business that they "escaped" china as opposed to just being rich enough to go to school abroad. and has little to no bearing on the amount of intelligent going around.

If Americans see an Asian person working at a US business, they will assume that person is an American. They may even ask what state you are from. It's honestly one of the nice things about the place, you can belong even if you are not from there.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#303

Post by 4d4m »

monster_truck wrote: post #237
jjcm wrote: post #166

China has caught up is the main takeaway here. The SOTA models are so close that it's really hard to compare them intelligence wise - you have to get a feel for them yourself and what works for you. What I'm really excited for is the 27B model. 3.6 is still the king of local, and if 3.8 makes the same improvements it could really legitimately make local viable as a default. I'd love to run a perpetual agent on 3.8 th…

Something I don't think many have internalized is that China has been as good or better for quite a while now (long before anyone was pointing distillation fingers) and enough people have finally tried it for themselves that the understanding has reached critical mass and the careful narrative of american companies is collapsing. When I finally put $15 into Deepseek and it beat the brakes off Codex 5.5 on multiple ra…

+1 most people are too afraid to try something new. They've been roughly on par with their frontier offerings for 6 months if not more.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#304

Post by smartbit »

cyanydeez wrote: post #270
vunderba wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I do. Headless 128GB RAM machine serving llama.cpp with a number of local models that I use on a daily basis. • Qwen3-VL picks up new images in a NAS, auto captions and adds the text descriptions as a hidden EXIF layer into the image, which is used for fast search and organization in conjunction with a Qdrant vector database. • Gemma3:27b is used for personal translation work (mostly English and Chinese). • Some s…

recommend opencode w/qwen 35B or 27B with MTP. My secret sauce is to use LLAMAcpp's reasoning-budget and reasoning-message that trigger cut off to overthinking with a message that says to either us subagents or compress the context. opencode's dynamic context pruning plugin can get you pretty far into the stratosphere.

Any experience with Sleev as replacement of DCP?

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48883538 25 days ago

> The Sleev (the project has been renamed to make a startup) creator was shilling their project in the OpenCode Discord. That person is very convinced they have something that no one has ever built before. They focused on token reduction without any real evals for capability impacts.

I'm generally against this context pruning without prompting or details. Sleev is very opaque about how it works and definitely will bust your cache.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#305

Post by edg5000 »

CMay wrote: post #251
doginasuit wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another potential takeaway is that the models all gathering around the same point supports the idea that there is a ceiling to LLM capability.

Or are humans more of a bottleneck than before, because to improve on the most complex problems that demonstrate intelligence you need some way to verify that they are correct. If it's hard for humans to even know if something is correct, wouldn't that slow everything down and simply put limits on the scaling speed of models based on human verification? So instead of relying heavily on human bottlenecks, you focus on…

Very interesting point you make! Before LLMs I had a theory that we cannot make something more intelligent/complex than us.

LLMs are certainly more knowledgable, but maybe not more intelligent, arguably. It's possible we're approacing a ceiling indeed.

Model capability might be on an asymptote appraching but never quite reaching parity with human intelligence.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#306

Post by ygjb »

dullcrisp wrote: post #285
AussieWog93 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's more "Downloading LimeWire Pro from LimeWire" than actual theft.

Why isn’t it more like building a hardware store using lumber you purchased from a competing hardware store? Or founding a school using an education you obtained at a different school?

Because that doesn't satisfy the narrative of American exceptionalism. It's easier to point at something and say it was stolen or copied than it is to compete, especially with the political climate in the US.

This isn't an anti-American sentiment. It is an anti-corporate/regulatory capture/embrace and extinguish sentiment (which probably reads the same to many people these days).

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#307

Post by conception »

onomojo wrote: post #34

Any benchmark showing Opus 5 as the best just loses credibility for me. Anyone who's actually used Opus 5 daily knows what I'm talking about.

https://claude.com/blog/the-new-rules-of-context-engineering...

I don’t see anyone talking about how you have to completely change your prompting strategies with Op. 5 versus 4.8 to get the most success.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#309

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

monster_truck wrote: post #247
Zambyte wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qwen 3.6 27b is already a viable default. I'm running it on a single 7900 XTX right now for Go development with pi. It's great.

Same! The only reason I'm not using it more is because it's summertime. I'm not in any hurry. Setting the memory to "fast timings" is good for 8-12% more tokens/second if you haven't tried yet. I miss the slightly older days of AMD when powerplay tables were unlocked and we could configure the timings and voltages manually, there's another 30% being left on the table ez

What do you mean by 'Setting the memory to "fast timings"'? The only runtime I can get working for my GPUs is llama.cpp, which I haven't seen anything like that in its argument set. My perusal of the options for vllm and sglang didn't suggest anything similar either before failing miserably.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#310

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

comboy wrote: post #30
eli wrote: post #5

I believe it. It's extremely good at troubleshooting. I gave Qwen and Kimi K3 the same annoying, complicated, intermittent bug to track down. Kimi did a bit better in understanding the existing code, but Qwen built some diagnostic tools and did an excellent statistical analysis on the log data. Qwen got way closer to the truth. I'm very much looking forward to their forthcoming smaller model Qwen 3.8 releases. A vers…

How CLI are you guys using for qwen and kimi?

Hermes. It can be set up to delegate to OpenCode for better multitasking and context usage as well.
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