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Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

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Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#111

Post by Lammy »

AgentME wrote: post #91
Lammy wrote: post #66

PROTIP: Install the Kex-engine remaster, but then actually play IronWail: https://github.com/andrei-drexler/ironwail It's a real IdTech source port that will load the Remaster's PAKs and pretend to be the Remaster to Steam for achievement unlocks. Dimension of the Machine was fantastic so I'm hyped to play Dawn of the Machine tonight :D

>PROTIP: Install the Kex-engine remaster, but then You should rephrase this as just "Install Quake on Steam, but then" for newcomers who need this advice to be able to understand it.

Yeah I guess I should have added “(the Steam version)”, but that was an intentional context clue because I bet most people here who haven't been paying lots of attention to Quake would assume that the currently-sold version was based on the actual Quake engine, because why wouldn't it be when it's like the game engine that's most-famous for being portable?

Ironwail issue for Dawn of the Machine support: https://github.com/andrei-drexler/ironwail/issues/550

And the new update to the KEX Remaster would't even launch for me; just crashes immediately with a “see CRASHLOG.TXT” message. I had to add `+r_rhirenderfamily "d3d11" +d3d11_compileShaders 1` to my Steam launch options, and it plays but with lots of texture glitching. This is on Intel 11th-gen integrated (Framework Laptop 12).

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#113

Post by donatj »

doublerabbit wrote: post #86
madewithdrama wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was never officially released, but it was on the front page of epic launcher for years, even after fortnite took off. The online experience was fairly complete and enjoyable (for people with experience) for ctf, duel, tdm, and team arena master. But yeah, epic didn't support it as much as they could have.

Eh, "boomer shooters" died along side with Halo and LAN parties. Minecraft was the final nail in the coffin. The knack and knowledge of hosting a dedicated server required skills. If you could one click button host a Quake 3 Arena server or UT, there would still be sort of a crowd. But not only that, if you were new: servers got toxic with the same grumpy players knowing every single trick in the map to one-shot kill…

I've never understood the appeal of the opposite. Modern gaming where you just play with different randos every round.

When I was a kid playing Quake 3 I had different servers bookmarked, knew the players that ran the servers and the general crowd that hung around. Had friendships and rivalries.

Modern multiplayer you may as well be playing bots. There's no community.

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#114

Post by noisy_boy »

amatecha wrote: post #73
karim79 wrote: post #68

Quake is 30 years old. I can't believe I'm still alive. I love this game so dearly. The mods were just incredible, KQP and Girobot in particular. Those were the for real LAN party days which I'll never get back. As in I had friends bringing over their big ass CRT monitors and PCs for a single occasion and also had ludicrously long network cables. My parents didn't mind, they somehow understood, even with LAN wires ru…

hell yeah, my first real LAN game experience on Windows was the Quake test/alpha that preceded the release of the game (IIRC?), when I was at a local tech school for a class. We weren't technically allowed to load the game on the uni PC's but like.. yeah... it happened. And we did zero work for that day (or days). (Prior LAN experience was Marathon and Bolo in the Mac lab which was insanely awesome too, and a year ea…

I remember the days where our data center PC had CDROM drive so someone installed Quake (can't remember II or III) and we would play while the overnight multi-hour batch jobs were running.

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#115

Post by ctippett »

zquzra wrote: post #90

Memories, many memories. I remember the endless nights playing Quake on dial-up, 190 ms ping, listening to Nirvana. There are still people playing on some servers, and the challenge is higher than ever. Although I still have the reflexes, the tics, and I know the maps and respawn times, I had a very hard time fitting into the games. I imagine that for someone starting today, it must be impossible to face 30 years of…

190ms? You lucky bastard!

(hopefully you're familiar with Monty Python...)

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#116

Post by doubled112 »

ColdStream wrote: post #97
karim79 wrote: post #68

Quake is 30 years old. I can't believe I'm still alive. I love this game so dearly. The mods were just incredible, KQP and Girobot in particular. Those were the for real LAN party days which I'll never get back. As in I had friends bringing over their big ass CRT monitors and PCs for a single occasion and also had ludicrously long network cables. My parents didn't mind, they somehow understood, even with LAN wires ru…

3 weeks ago, John Romero did a play through while discussing the entire design and build process of the game. It was actually pretty cool how they designed the first room to demonstrate almost every new feature of the engine and how the first level is made to walk you though most of the new gameplay features. https://youtu.be/PU7HkttPfAo?si=LnD4vJeCiUojhojt&t=728

YOU CAN JUMP ACROSS

And as I typed that I can still hear the noise all these years later.

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#117

Post by noisy_boy »

zquzra wrote: post #90

Memories, many memories. I remember the endless nights playing Quake on dial-up, 190 ms ping, listening to Nirvana. There are still people playing on some servers, and the challenge is higher than ever. Although I still have the reflexes, the tics, and I know the maps and respawn times, I had a very hard time fitting into the games. I imagine that for someone starting today, it must be impossible to face 30 years of…

I have introduced my son to online Quake III servers where people still play regularly. The Quad Damage voiceover is still cool as hell.

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#118

Post by MindSpunk »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #52
madewithdrama wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were great examples of what an arena shooter should be. Smooth movement, balanced weapons, well designed maps. The people who had experience with arena shooters liked them. Most new players did not want to get rekt for months on end while they learned the basics, however.

> Most new players did not want to get rekt for months on end while they learned the basics, however. If that's the new player experience, you done fucked up. Making sure new players actually have fun is a critical part of the game's design. You can't just rely on "...and then new players will have to spend 50-60 hours getting demolished before they start having a good time." Easing that transition could mean differe…

That's largely what matchmaking aims to solve, assuming you have enough players you can get a reasonably balanced match to drop people into.

Bots can teach basics, but many of these games rely on abusing game mechanics in ways the developers didn't think of in development so it's impossible to teach. Or things are physically difficult to pull off.

Movement shooters especially have this problem because a core part of the game is abusing the movement system and abilities to out maneuver other players. You can explain the how, but executing it all automatically is a real skill that requires practice. I adore Titanfall 2. I sunk hundreds of hours into it. It's really something else when you get the movement down, it all happens so fast you can't think about it you just have to do it. There's no way to teach that with a tutorial, it's muscle memory and perseverance.

Titanfall 2 has all of these things, campaign, skirmish with bots and PvE, but the skill floor and ceiling is still brutal. Whether it failed or not is a question of how long you expected the game to last, but it still succumbed to the same fate. The more experienced players pulled the ladder up behind them and the matchmaker didn't have enough players to give everyone a fair match.

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#119

Post by MindSpunk »

html5cat wrote: post #54

Surprised they didn't port these to Mac yet. Between M series and Game Porting Toolkit (4 now?) it seems like small effort can unlock huge wave of new players nostalgic for childhood game.

You can't actually ship a game on the porting toolkit without breaching the license. It's intended by Apple to aid porting to use Mac's native APIs one component at a time, but the license forbids redistribution or commercial use. The community can hack away with it however they want because Apple isn't going to chase every individual person, but a business can't ship it unless they want a nice call with Apple's legal team.

Re: Quake – 30th Anniversary Update

#120

Post by bityard »

doublerabbit wrote: post #86
madewithdrama wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was never officially released, but it was on the front page of epic launcher for years, even after fortnite took off. The online experience was fairly complete and enjoyable (for people with experience) for ctf, duel, tdm, and team arena master. But yeah, epic didn't support it as much as they could have.

Eh, "boomer shooters" died along side with Halo and LAN parties. Minecraft was the final nail in the coffin. The knack and knowledge of hosting a dedicated server required skills. If you could one click button host a Quake 3 Arena server or UT, there would still be sort of a crowd. But not only that, if you were new: servers got toxic with the same grumpy players knowing every single trick in the map to one-shot kill…

All of the things you mentioned still exist, they are just not mainstream. And maybe that's for the best. Small friendly communities keep them alive, not companies that need to keep messing with a working thing in order to justify a monthly subscription or ad revenue.
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