Datacenters haven't been a huge problem until now -- it's 1) what they're being used for (AI that clearly benefits the largest companies and threatens to decimate jobs while providing little tangible benefits for the average person so far), and 2) the rate at which large companies desire for them to be built and the consequent demands on water and electricity at a time when these resources are already under considerable strain (not to mention that we're supposed to be _reducing_ energy production to mitigate the effects of climate change)
Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
131–140 of 148 posts
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reasons to care about "industry" in particular are process knowledge and highly skilled labor and supply chains. Datacenters have very little involvement in any of those. And they don't bring many jobs.
So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Great! Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection.
> So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal.
Huh? Sure but that's not what I was talking about?
> Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection.
There's a huge gap in explanation for how you got here. But home internet connections aren't served by data centers anyway.
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Great! Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection.
> So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Huh? Sure but that's not what I was talking about? > Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection. There's a huge gap in explanation for how you got here. But home internet connections aren't served by data centers anyway.
You just said there's no reason the government should care to allow data center construction. Any DC, not just AI DCs.
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Huh? Sure but that's not what I was talking about? > Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection. There's a huge gap in explanation for how you got here. But home internet connections aren't served by data centers anyway.
You just said there's no reason the government should care to allow data center construction. Any DC, not just AI DCs.
No I didn't...
I just said it's not relevant to "the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity".
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about my comment gave you the confidence to (incorrectly) answer your own question for me? I want to see large investment in mass produced nuclear power plants, enabling us to do exactly what you are suggesting.
Oh boy. I can't wait to see what the people who remove the exhaust filters from their gas turbines would do with a nuclear plant.
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#136Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#137I think it can't be categorized as NIMBYism because the underlying sentiment is not just no data centers in my backyard, but anyones backyard. It's about the AI project itself, even if it expresses itself differently for a local context.
I can speak from a relative perspective, at least for my state;
- The major Electrical provider has a terrible track record for improving overall reliability of service to local homes. The average outage time is 3x the normal average, and the percentages for rate increases always favor corporate customers vs residential. Yes, Residential often has more 'long tail' cost in outage scenarios but it should be better balanced IMO. but also our grid seems to be a bit stressed and adding that additional stress is a big concern.
- The water usage for these data centers is an unknown, and sure they can do a closed or mostly closed loop but we aren't getting any promises on that. My state is lucky enough to have a LOT of water around it, but we also have awareness about what industrialization has done to those waterways and the ecosystems that live in them. We don't need more problems.
- In fact we actually have an issue where communities have newish data centers, that frankly have ggravating shrill sound at all hours. [0] [1]
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#138One under-discussed topic is whether Americans hate data centers in their neighborhoods, or whether they actually just hate gas turbine generators running 24/7 in their neighborhoods.
The gas turbine thing really is justifiably killing the public perception of data centers since the obvious message is that even if your local data center isn't destroying your quality of life with incessant noise, it's only because they have decided it's not in their best interest to do so right now and that decision could change at any moment. As long as that is a possibility ever, you'd have to be nuts to want a data center built anywhere near where you live.
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#139One under-discussed topic is whether Americans hate data centers in their neighborhoods, or whether they actually just hate gas turbine generators running 24/7 in their neighborhoods.
At least in my part of the US, the datacenters built (and planned) are not running their own gas generators, but are just as hated here as they are most other places due to the other adverse impacts they have.
Does everyone there know they aren't running their own generators or are they legally prevented from ever doing so? I don't disagree people may dislike them for other reasons, but the horror stories around generator noise mean the data center builder would need a very strong counter argument for why residents would never have to worry about that.
Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier. Yeah, that' true. What's the problem with building them in Atherton, then? The nation will get the same positive externalities if they're built there. Hell, build ones ringing the houses of Sam Altman and Dario Amodei. Larry Ellison has a whole island that could be filled with data centers. Seem…
Technologists would be thrilled to build them in California? This is such a weird and fake criticism, California has driven manufacturing and industry out of the state, SF tech companies don't want to build in Nevada, they are forced to by regulations. Like, none of the things you proposed doing are legal in the jurisdictions mentioned. It is NOT LEGAL for Sam Altman to build a hyperscale data center in his backyard.…
CA has one of the largest manufacturing sectors in the world. 4th biggest economy, and still in the top 10 without tech.
And that's after a decade of companies "abandoning" the state.