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Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

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Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#11

Post by arjie »

inigyou wrote: post #7
tejohnso wrote: post #2

So you're forced to join a gang and fight their rival gangs, or you form your own gang equipped with rifles and grenades ready to commit violence, so that you can fight against joining that gang, or any other gang. Either way you're in a violent gang. I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence.

These gangs are states. We can tell this because they have monopolies on violence.

The entire reason there is any conflict there is a lack of a monopoly on violence… The monopoly part is significant. It’s not just “doing a lot of”.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#12

Post by e40 »

int0x29 wrote: post #3

These self defense groups sound great until you think about all the problems with vigilante groups. Also they have a history of turning into cartels. That and all things being equal I suspect most of the people in these groups would rather not be fighting.

What choice do they have?

This is not your usual vigilante group. This is a reaction to an overwhelming force of criminal gangs killing citizens and the government being powerless to stop them.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#13

Post by [deleted] »

inigyou wrote: post #7
tejohnso wrote: post #2

So you're forced to join a gang and fight their rival gangs, or you form your own gang equipped with rifles and grenades ready to commit violence, so that you can fight against joining that gang, or any other gang. Either way you're in a violent gang. I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence.

These gangs are states. We can tell this because they have monopolies on violence.

[deleted]

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#14

Post by [deleted] »

monkaiju wrote: post #6
tejohnso wrote: post #2

So you're forced to join a gang and fight their rival gangs, or you form your own gang equipped with rifles and grenades ready to commit violence, so that you can fight against joining that gang, or any other gang. Either way you're in a violent gang. I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence.

Not sure its fair to equate a gang fueled by drug smuggling to a self-defense militia.

[deleted]

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#15

Post by monkaiju »

inigyou wrote: post #9
monkaiju wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure its fair to equate a gang fueled by drug smuggling to a self-defense militia.

[flagged]

Oh yeah, you wont catch me defending the US government one bit.

What I'm saying is a group of people in a community taking up arms to defend themselves is not inherently the same as a drug cartel.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#16

Post by forinti »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #5

Mexico has been like that for decades, I believe it's top 1 priority for most Mexicans yet it's still not fixed. What gives ? At some point when your government is so corrupt, you got to take weapon and organize yourself. It's sad.

A characteristic of most of Latin America is that the Police and the Army were created to protect power, not the people, and there hasn't really been an effort to change the mentality.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#17

Post by cwnyth »

monkaiju wrote: post #6
tejohnso wrote: post #2

So you're forced to join a gang and fight their rival gangs, or you form your own gang equipped with rifles and grenades ready to commit violence, so that you can fight against joining that gang, or any other gang. Either way you're in a violent gang. I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence.

Not sure its fair to equate a gang fueled by drug smuggling to a self-defense militia.

Apparently, words can just mean whatever people want, so long as it aligns with one's feelings or helps them feel superior to others.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#18

Post by autoexec »

int0x29 wrote: post #3

These self defense groups sound great until you think about all the problems with vigilante groups. Also they have a history of turning into cartels. That and all things being equal I suspect most of the people in these groups would rather not be fighting.

It's not an ideal situation, but since the Mexican government refuses to do its job and protect their people and uphold the law what choice do they have?

Right now these people are just doing whatever they can to survive but it's just treating the symptom. The source of the problem is the Mexican government who is either incompetent or happy to take bribes to look the other way while their citizens are left the mercy of paramilitary gangs.

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