Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage • Hacker News Board

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#481

Post by Tade0 » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 7:33 PM UTC

barbazoo wrote: post #387

Tade0 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not concerned. Never in my life have I experienced stakeholders just going "hmm, yes - this is enough software for our purposes - we won't be needing your services any more". There's always another feature that can be implemented or a new problem to be solved. Tools only ever accelerated the pace at which we were able to follow this insatiable hunger for more software. Right now people are getting fired left and…

I can imagine that this will lead to an explosion in software where we didn't see software before. Much smaller business now have the ability to build something themselves, not with a team of highly paid software developers but a single programmer maune. Big business is going to struggle with building software for a while. Writing code is often not the hard part there already, coordination, larger understanding of th…

My cowork buddy is living this reality - he's an independent analyst and previously he needed to shell out significant cash to have certain scripts (largely scrapers, social media API integration etc.) done, now it's all just a prompt away.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

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Post by eddieroger » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 7:35 PM UTC

Thanemate wrote: post #206

GPerson wrote: post #200

Programming is nice because you have lots of different scales of structure to think about, and your program slowly comes together. You see it improving over time as a result of your efforts. You also build your skills and learn. It’s really a nice activity. AI systems basically change that whole formula. I’m not sure how people get joy out of constantly vibe coding new projects. It feels like binge watching Netflix s…

>I’m not sure how people get joy out of constantly vibe coding new projects. It feels like binge watching Netflix shows. It's just power fantasy. It's amazing the first couple of times but as it wears off and becomes the new norm you forgot how being the one who decides which thing does what feels like. Luckily (or unluckily?) the industry only cares about the end result, and flushes out people who used to reward for…

I get nothing of the power fantasy, of it, but I do get joy out of vibe coding.

As I've gotten older, the amount of ideas I have here and there has remained constant, while the time I have, or brain power at the end of the day when I can work on my passion projects, has diminished. What was once basically a second day job at night became family time, baths, dinner, etc. So while I may be too exhausted to sit and code, I am not too tired to sit and type my ideas, or discuss a single feature I want to see, or review what's there. I get joy that ideas are getting out of my head faster despite less brainpower to get them there. I can always grab the reigns and take over myself, but that's not the kind of thing that wins against going to bed.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#483

Post by pydry » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 7:40 PM UTC

cvwright wrote: post #472

pydry wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now there is a plagiarism machine built on top of decades of this work that seemingly solves 3 and promises to solve 2 (badly, but usually this matters little I think people underestimate just how much users scorn buggy, flaky technology. The main issue with solid, reliable technology which Just Works is that users have relatively few reliable cues to distinguish that from vibe coded crap. A vibe coded piece of shit…

Where are these well engineered products made with care? I would love to use more tech like that. Unfortunately most sites and apps have been low quality and getting worse since well before AI coding became a thing. Examples: Lowes, Home Depot, American Airlines - all shockingly bad for companies of that size.

Apple used to be the standard bearer for that. These days I'm not so sure.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#484

Post by overgard » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 7:50 PM UTC

shiomiru wrote: post #251

alkonaut wrote: post #224

Programming has five phases effectively: 1) You figure out what problem to solve. 2) You figure out HOW to solve the problem. 3) You actually implement the solution. 4) You see the solution work, for yourself. 5) You ship/deploy/publish the program. This means you see people be happy users and/or you get paid for it and so on. If you're an entrepreneur type, you probably enjoy the first and last steps most, and you s…

There's also the economic problem that programmers had until recently been highly regarded because steps 2-3 were hard. "Open source" solved this partially by utilizing the labor such (relatively) well-paid people gave away "for the love of it", but it was not nearly enough to put most out of work. Now there is a plagiarism machine built on top of decades of this work that seemingly solves 3 and promises to solve 2 (…

The impression I get is a lot of people are very upset. Most of the good programmers I know are just burnt out even talking about this, and are irritated with the people invading our profession pretending they know what they're doing while they don't.

I remember talking to the biggest AI booster at my last job. When I got him one on one, he admitted that he actually doesn't like AI and that it terrifies him, but he wanted to be seen as pro AI to keep his job. Fair. (Sadly, like me, he was also laid off, so I guess it didn't work)

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#485

Post by overgard » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 7:53 PM UTC

pigpop wrote: post #284

shiomiru wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the economic problem that programmers had until recently been highly regarded because steps 2-3 were hard. "Open source" solved this partially by utilizing the labor such (relatively) well-paid people gave away "for the love of it", but it was not nearly enough to put most out of work. Now there is a plagiarism machine built on top of decades of this work that seemingly solves 3 and promises to solve 2 (…

Maybe I'm just old but people talking about being in programming for "status" or to be "highly regarded" really irks me. I'd rather see the entire field burnt to the ground and replaced by robots than to have it become a status profession like lawyering.

I've never felt like it's a status profession (I don't think anybody has ever been impressed when I told them what my job was other than "oh sounds like it takes a lot of smarts")

I do notice a lot of HN commenters seem to think that programmers are smug though, like we deserve to be knocked down a peg. I personally don't see it, but I also try not to work with jerks.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#486

Post by overgard » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 7:59 PM UTC

_luci_ wrote: post #384

shiomiru wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the economic problem that programmers had until recently been highly regarded because steps 2-3 were hard. "Open source" solved this partially by utilizing the labor such (relatively) well-paid people gave away "for the love of it", but it was not nearly enough to put most out of work. Now there is a plagiarism machine built on top of decades of this work that seemingly solves 3 and promises to solve 2 (…

100% agreed, especially that last line. What I do not understand is why so many people are entirely okay with this change. I'm not interested in working with LLM's and after having been forced to work with LLM's at my current job, I can pretty confidently say that this will not end well for most of these companies. The people in charge pushing for this new tech do not understand the rammifications, nor do they unders…

My suspicion is that the people "ok" with this are mostly doing so because they want in on the ride. IE, they see $$$ and they think that they should align themselves to where the money is, especially by espousing their religious faith publicly. I think some people want investment, or a big paid lab job, and so countering the narrative is against that goal. I get it, but I think it's also very annoying and dishonest. Personally I feel nervous being an AI skeptic because it feels like it could have consequences for me, but I also feel like, life isn't worth living if you don't have a spine and I can't get completely on board with all this stuff when I see all the negatives clearly. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a use, but, the current situation and discourse is extremely frustrating.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#487

Post by overgard » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:15 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #277

shiomiru wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the economic problem that programmers had until recently been highly regarded because steps 2-3 were hard. "Open source" solved this partially by utilizing the labor such (relatively) well-paid people gave away "for the love of it", but it was not nearly enough to put most out of work. Now there is a plagiarism machine built on top of decades of this work that seemingly solves 3 and promises to solve 2 (…

This is unfortunately just the result of technological progress. People for centuries have crafted extremely hard to acquire skills over decades only to find their labour being made completely worthless due to automation or better alternatives disrupting their industry. Carpenters, hatters, cobblers, miners, weavers, calculators, etc... We can get mad about it, but it just is what it is. Ultimately for most people th…

There isn't any "prepping for this outcome", unless you're thinking of a doomsday bunker in argentina. You can be neighbors with Peter Thiel! The way I see it, if programmers go the way of hatters it's not long for other professions, so why retrain? The only thing that will save other jobs is bureaucracy and accreditation. But that's the doom scenario, which I don't think is going to happen. These things are useful but they can't do everything.

I think there's some progress, but I think the hype is so high that people don't have a clear view of what's realistic and what's not. IE, if you were to believe Amodei back in 2025 you'd believe none of us would even have jobs to complain about right now.. which hasn't happened. Altman is already declaring the singularity. It's unhinged. Anyone that says this is going to cure cancer or solve all problems is just living in a delusion.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#488

Post by rayiner » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:21 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #479

rayiner wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done both, lots of lawyers are also nerds who just like to tinker with the law and words. Often very well paid tinkering, but that's true for programmers as well.

> Having done both [software and law], lots of lawyers are also nerds who just like to tinker with the law and words Having also done both: In legal drafting work, there's less systematic pre-release testing before the equivalent of a "program" is loosed upon the world. There's not much in the way of counterparts to software unit testing and regression testing, in part because legal-drafting clients can be vociferous…

> Having also done both: In legal drafting work, there's less systematic pre-release testing before the equivalent of a "program" is loosed upon the world. There's not much in the way of counterparts to software unit testing and regression testing, in part because legal-drafting clients can be vociferous in demanding that their lawyers keep costs down.

Yeah, at least in litigation you get relatively immediate feedback in the form of a decision. Seems anxiety inducing to me to draft these contracts and have no feedback loop unless something blows up years later.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#489

Post by overgard » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:29 PM UTC

waffletower wrote: post #431

shiomiru wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the economic problem that programmers had until recently been highly regarded because steps 2-3 were hard. "Open source" solved this partially by utilizing the labor such (relatively) well-paid people gave away "for the love of it", but it was not nearly enough to put most out of work. Now there is a plagiarism machine built on top of decades of this work that seemingly solves 3 and promises to solve 2 (…

It sickens me when people use the word plagiarism to describe LLMs. Particularly when they use words and language that they themselves have plagiarized -- words like "love" and "economic" -- where do you draw the line? No, we haven't figured out how to fairly compensate everyone -- the frontiers aren't even trying. Spotify does at least try in their domain (and fails badly). Regardless of how the entitled get paid, t…

So, I think this issue is a lot more obvious in image generation than it is in code or writing (but the implicit problem is the same). You can ask an image model to generate images in the style of an artist, that it's been trained on, without permission, and with a lot of these artists intentionally trying to poison the data and leaving every hint to the scrapers to fuck off. It takes a lot of work to develop a unique style that people love, and it's ugly as hell that a bunch of sloppers just plagiarize it. It's different when a person does it. Sure, you can & should practice on other people's styles, but ultimately in the process you find your own. GenAI doesn't do that, it just.. steals and copies. So yeah, it might make you sick, but it also is a plagiarism machine. The thing you should feel sick about is the plagiarism, not the description.

Re: Born Against, or why hobby programming communities are against LLM usage

#490

Post by hunterpayne » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:36 PM UTC

ambicapter wrote: post #476

pigpop wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree. You can add medical doctors to the list as well, lots of nerds but also a lot of clout chasers and money-grubbers who couldn't care less about the profession. I don't want to see programming take the same path.

It already has? Clout-chasers and money grubbers go for all the big tech jobs in droves.

And its been that way for at least a decade.