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Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

artificialanalysis.ai

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Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#41
post #34

Any benchmark showing Opus 5 as the best just loses credibility for me. Anyone who's actually used Opus 5 daily knows what I'm talking about.

I'm dumbfounded to see Opus 5 making SO MANY mistakes in coding simple stuff. Most times, Fable 5 comes out to be cheaper because it nails so many things much quicker than Opus 5.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#42
post #6
post #4

Why does an open weights model cost nearly the same as GPT5.6? $1.14 vs $1.23 on the cost index. Since you can't presumably run this on your own hardware given the model size and hence gain other things like privacy, I don't see any reason to move away from GPT at this rate.

It's not enough that it's better? Many providers will host it and will compete on price. It also can't easily be taken away because one company (or one government) decides they don't want it around any more. People can fine-tune it for particular workloads.

> It's not enough that it's better?

It's barely better, and barely cheaper, not really enough to challenge the status quo IMO. Half the price for basically the same performance would be a much stronger value proposition.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#43
post #4

Why does an open weights model cost nearly the same as GPT5.6? $1.14 vs $1.23 on the cost index. Since you can't presumably run this on your own hardware given the model size and hence gain other things like privacy, I don't see any reason to move away from GPT at this rate.

Qwen Max is their large model - over a trillion params. Similar to Kimi K3 in size. Qwen 3.8 27B is going to be more accessible to your own hardware. I'd say that Qwen Max is not approachable for the majority of people and companies to self-host.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#46
post #9

Is there a path to distill this model to do very specific things? Like a RAG strategy for a small (or even large) corpus?

once you are able to get the full probability distributions per token you can distill it on specific domains. distilling without that isn't generally a good idea unless you have invested millions in the requisite infrastructure.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#47

Hopefully this boils down to the smaller versions they've teased. In my experience, Qwen models are the closest to the "less knowledge, more intelligence" (yes, the two are hugely correlated!) ideal some tool-dependent tasks need. Even the 3.5 2B can be easily prompted to always lean on tools and not jump to false conclusions (although its actual coding skills are abysmal, as you'd expect).

> less knowledge, more intelligence

People produce such models by over-RL-ing smaller models on math and coding tasks. I've found the results capable of neither innovative work nor thinking outside the box. They're straight-A students raised by tiger moments who never let them play freely for hours in the dirt.

Perhaps you could say such models are skilled --- but intelligent? Not by my measure.

People and AIs alike need diversity of experience and a broad liberal arts education to see hidden connections between fields and make real advances.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#48
post #34

Any benchmark showing Opus 5 as the best just loses credibility for me. Anyone who's actually used Opus 5 daily knows what I'm talking about.

"As you requested, I've finished task X. Honestly, task X turned out to require task Y, which I haven't actually done. Task Y is the next step if you'd like to continue along this route."

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#49
post #38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How CLI are you guys using for qwen and kimi?

I use https://pi.dev/ which works fine out of the box but is fairly minimal and intended to be customized. There are many extensions. OpenCode or oh-my-pi might make more sense if you just want a batteries-included agent. You can also make Claude Code work with other models without too much work, but I think that's asking for headaches.

I used claude with GLM and it's easy to set up, just hard to find the documentation. No headaches really, unless you want to use it against multiple different APIs.

Re: Qwen3.8 Max now ranked as the best overall model by agentic index

#50
post #34

Any benchmark showing Opus 5 as the best just loses credibility for me. Anyone who's actually used Opus 5 daily knows what I'm talking about.

Agreed, it's extremely frustrating. It's the only model that actually makes me curse when talking to it, even knowing how counterproductive it is.
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