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Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

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Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#91

Post by palmotea »

bpodgursky wrote: post #40
palmotea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sad. For all the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity (or lost it long ago), we can't even handle some of the lightest industry possible. A big building that hums and releases slightly warm water, and the only sector in which we could still be called a world leader. No. Data centers have very, very few positive externalities for the people who live around them. They employ very few people, use a…

The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier.

> The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier.

Yeah, that' true. What's the problem with building them in Atherton, then? The nation will get the same positive externalities if they're built there.

Hell, build ones ringing the houses of Sam Altman and Dario Amodei. Larry Ellison has a whole island that could be filled with data centers. Seems like those are the best places for them.

Everyone wins, right?

I'm tired of the "some of you may suffer, but that's a price I'm willing to pay" BS.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#92

Post by BoggleOhYeah »

threatofrain wrote: post #62
BoggleOhYeah wrote: post #41

It may have been the AI CEOs bragging that they’re going to take everyone’s job away. Maybe one day, Silicon Valley will learn that their insufferable arrogance is not a virtue for everyone outside of their bubble.

You can see this as an American thing if you want... but you might look at the rest of the world to ask whether you're trying to convince the world to un-invent gunpowder. If China gave superior paid offerings we might just start transferring all our data over to them instead. Anyways, have we considered building our compute infrastructure in China's backyard instead?

I’m not asking anyone to do anything.

I’m saying the AI industry created their own problems by thinking the general population would eat their shit with a smile like their sycophants do.

For a bunch of people that considered themselves smarter and better than the general populous, they don’t understand people very well.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#93

Post by palmotea »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #15

The rumor is going around on X that foreign enemies of the US (especially China) are trying to influence Americans through social networks against building data centers.

> The rumor is going around on X that foreign enemies of the US (especially China) are trying to influence Americans through social networks against building data centers.

X is owned by a guy who builds data centers.

Also I don't trust rumors that oh-so-conveniently support the interests of some very wealthy people doing unpopular things. Heuristics say it's probably propaganda planted by their PR operations, and they do not get the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#94

Post by notyourwork »

dlcarrier wrote: post #83
notyourwork wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we? Corporations steamroll the public, take their tax breaks and ask for more.

I do like living and working in buildings, using computers, refrigeration systems and transit infrastructure, getting medical care, and eating cooked food, so I think building things is by far a net positive. Also, banking, scientific research, offsite backups, and the internet have been very useful, so data centers are pretty great.

That's dismissive to my point. Society built itself up. Corporations that suck on society's tit and give nothing back, demand profits, and continue to skim off the top are not Mother Teresa.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#95

Post by nvme0n1p1 »

0xy wrote: post #75
bs7280 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate that I am subsidizing the power bills for these data centers.

So you would support the construction of data centers with completely off-grid power sources that you did not subsidize? Didn't think so.

What a goofy comment.

"I hate that my tax dollars were used to bomb Iran"

"So you would support the bombing of countries that aren't Iran?"

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#96

Post by inigyou »

dylan604 wrote: post #37
rzerowan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im wondering why the typical design is a warehouse with horizontal sprawl . Wouldnt it make sense to go vertical up or down . Smaller footprint if insidea a metro area by having a skyscarper type data center , as i recall AT&T used to have such windowless anonymous buldings scattered in some cities for their equipment. Or have a Silo type structure going down if in a more rural area to not blight the landscape.With a…

Coming from a construction family, the saying oft heard saying was "it's more expensive to build up than out". Also, zoning codes can set limits on how tall of a building can be built. Four stories is a common limit which also happens to coincide with the max height for a timber construction is also four stories. If you're out in the 'burbs, you probably wouldn't want to see a random 10 story boring windowless concre…

I see you've been to Avalon Studios.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#97

Post by inigyou »

wiether wrote: post #35
JohnFen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my part of the US, the datacenters built (and planned) are not running their own gas generators, but are just as hated here as they are most other places due to the other adverse impacts they have.

Aren't all DC equipped with gas generators as backups? And they have to run it for an hour every quarter to make sure they work?

Probably, but that isn't the problem people have with gas generators. Musk is running 30 of them 24/7 to power xAI because there isn't enough grid capacity in the area, and he removed exhaust filters for efficiency and gave several entire towns permanent chronic asthma from NOx poisoning.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#98

Post by inigyou »

notyourwork wrote: post #46
goda90 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are going to assume any data center project will have all the worst possible qualities. And a this point I'd say they're justified given how much dishonesty and corruption has been flying around. I don't envy any company that's being open and taking steps to mitigate issues because all the others have caused this hostile environment.

Seems there is opportunity for a company to rise to the top if they take a stance that buys societal goodwill.

But then they wouldn't make a profit.

This whole thing is highly speculative. Most of the buildings won't get any use, and the ones that do will be strictly the ones with the lowest costs.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#99

Post by inigyou »

nvme0n1p1 wrote: post #95
0xy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would support the construction of data centers with completely off-grid power sources that you did not subsidize? Didn't think so.

What a goofy comment. "I hate that my tax dollars were used to bomb Iran" "So you would support the bombing of countries that aren't Iran?"

It was actually "so you would support a billionaire bombing Iran with his own dollars?"

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#100

Post by inigyou »

bs7280 wrote: post #77
0xy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would support the construction of data centers with completely off-grid power sources that you did not subsidize? Didn't think so.

What about my comment gave you the confidence to (incorrectly) answer your own question for me? I want to see large investment in mass produced nuclear power plants, enabling us to do exactly what you are suggesting.

Oh boy. I can't wait to see what the people who remove the exhaust filters from their gas turbines would do with a nuclear plant.
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