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A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

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Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#21

Post by xkcd-sucks »

> One reason why journalists, activists, and residents have been able to learn so much about what police use Flock for is that the company has built auditing tools that the public can access through records requests. ... It is not clear if the same granularity of data can be learned about Axon systems, although it does allow agencies to generate audit reports.

> Axon’s documentation for its ALPR product, a “shared data” option “extends the query to partner-agency detections once a sharing relationship is active.”

Axon develops a data marketplace to streamline so-called lawful sharing of data, or acquires it via Flock and rebrands the network name. Audit capabilities are removed to streamline operational efficiency and reduce political risk. The public is no better off than before.

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#22

Post by Barbing »

wolfi1 wrote: post #12
wxw wrote: post #9

> One key feature of Flock is its national lookup tool. > Axon, simply, does not have a national network. Meaning that it would not be possible for cops in one jurisdiction to search cameras across the country. [...] Police departments using Axon can enter into data sharing agreements with each other, though. > Denver, just like the City of Ferndale, explicitly mentioned this lack of this national network as part of…

it took Last Week Tonight years to get these records in one particular case

Probably this from 3d ago: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lnBPhelCdWE

Generally, silly jokes but a very serious research and fact checking team.

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#23

Post by FireBeyond »

wxw wrote: post #9

> One key feature of Flock is its national lookup tool. > Axon, simply, does not have a national network. Meaning that it would not be possible for cops in one jurisdiction to search cameras across the country. [...] Police departments using Axon can enter into data sharing agreements with each other, though. > Denver, just like the City of Ferndale, explicitly mentioned this lack of this national network as part of…

How long before Axon turns data sharing "opt out"?

> One reason why journalists, activists, and residents have been able to learn so much about what police use Flock for is that the company has built auditing tools that the public can access through records requests.

As someone else says, "in theory". Also of note, their "Transparency Portal" is... not. I know of at least three agencies in my County who are using Flock who are not listed on the Transparency Portal...

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#25

Post by gilthelander »

wxw wrote: post #9

> One key feature of Flock is its national lookup tool. > Axon, simply, does not have a national network. Meaning that it would not be possible for cops in one jurisdiction to search cameras across the country. [...] Police departments using Axon can enter into data sharing agreements with each other, though. > Denver, just like the City of Ferndale, explicitly mentioned this lack of this national network as part of…

[flagged]

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#26

Post by dave78 »

cyanydeez wrote: post #8
dave78 wrote: post #5

Vendor doesn't matter. The same issues will exist. Public safety is all about aggregating data to "operationalize" it now, so all vendors will be collecting data and sharing it with all customers just like Flock. The only benefit is that for the moment, other vendors' networks are small compared to Flock.

republicans got their government small enough that business and religion can drown it.

Flock cameras are everywhere all over my very blue area in a blue state with new ones appearing every day. I really don't think this is a Republican/Democrat issue.

And I think as people are learning about it, they are outraged across the political spectrum; perhaps we should capitalized on that instead of trying to turn it into a red/blue thing.

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#27

Post by neura »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #21

> One reason why journalists, activists, and residents have been able to learn so much about what police use Flock for is that the company has built auditing tools that the public can access through records requests. ... It is not clear if the same granularity of data can be learned about Axon systems, although it does allow agencies to generate audit reports. > Axon’s documentation for its ALPR product, a “shared da…

Worse off, if anything.

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#28

Post by gilthelander »

pphysch wrote: post #20
wxw wrote: post #9

> One key feature of Flock is its national lookup tool. > Axon, simply, does not have a national network. Meaning that it would not be possible for cops in one jurisdiction to search cameras across the country. [...] Police departments using Axon can enter into data sharing agreements with each other, though. > Denver, just like the City of Ferndale, explicitly mentioned this lack of this national network as part of…

This is a step in the right direction. Everyone hates public surveillance until they become the victim of a crime, but it's critical that the surveillance is owned and controlled fully on an appropriate level. You should fully own and control your home security cameras. Right now many homeowners are shipping their data to national datacenters. Municipalities should fully own and control their public security cameras,…

> You should fully own and control your home security cameras. Right now many homeowners are shipping their data to national datacenters.

In practice it's difficult to do and offer remote access.

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#29

Post by yieldcrv »

advisedwang wrote: post #19
SoftTalker wrote: post #2

Prediction: Flock acquires Axon.

Axon is a public company with market cap of $50B. It is an incumbent with a huge business in bodycams and tasers with a huge number of US police departments. Flock has a $7.5B valuation at it's last funding round, and is the new comer. More likely for Axon to acquire flock than the other way around.

half cash, half stock

Re: A handful of cities have replaced Flock with Axon

#30

Post by zeeveener »

gilthelander wrote: post #25
wxw wrote: post #9

> One key feature of Flock is its national lookup tool. > Axon, simply, does not have a national network. Meaning that it would not be possible for cops in one jurisdiction to search cameras across the country. [...] Police departments using Axon can enter into data sharing agreements with each other, though. > Denver, just like the City of Ferndale, explicitly mentioned this lack of this national network as part of…

[flagged]

It forces a paper trail of warrants and other "official" pathways that we would normally consider proper policing.

If another district wants to ask a question, they have to follow the appropriate chain of command and use the correct tools.

Flock appears to have been a way for them to work around all of that and just answer any question they had willy-nilly.

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