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Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

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Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#62
You can still get quality services and products. It's still possible to get a well cooked steak, but they are going to get harder to find and vastly more expensive and many people will be priced out of them entirely and will have to settle for the slop (which will also only get more expensive even as quality gets worse).

Between "AI" incompetence and companies not caring about doing anything above the bare minimum it's making our lives worse and more obnoxious. AI is accelerating the enshittification of everything and it goes way beyond software. It'll now be your responsibility to spend your free time on the phone talking to a company's AI chatbot "customer service" trying to fix whatever problems their use of AI will inevitably cause you.

When we envisioned our future we thought everything would get better. All high tech and fancy, but it's looking like what we'll get is expensive yet barely functional and annoying while we collectively just get poorer and dumber.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#63
Considering the article starts with "Cooking a steak requires almost no skill. Put it in a hot pan", I think I see the root of his problem. Pan searing a steak only makes sense in a small number of situations: you have a leaner cut like filet mignon, you want precise temperature control to achieve the Maillard reaction, or you know none of these things but just really like stinking up your kitchen and splattering butter everywhere for the aesthetic and the olfactory experience. For most cases, you would be better off with a grill rather than a pan.

Now maybe you're not knowledgeable about steak, and you're not sure whether the cut of steak you bought would be better off pan seared or grilled. Is ribeye better in a pan or a grill? That depends on whether you want it more smokey or more buttery. Ask an AI and tell it how you want it to taste, and it'll tell you the answer.

His metaphorical steak machine would produce better results if he had simply asked "I want a steak and I have this specific cut and I want it to have this kind of flavor, how do you suggest I make it?" rather than "cook steak on a hot pan, make no mistakes."

TL;DR: Tell the AI what you want and then ask how it for a recommendation of how to do it. You don't have to "understand software." You only need to understand how to ask the right questions.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#64

I prefer to both cook steaks at home and go out for them. Apart from that, I want to believe (and even notice tiny signals) that this sentiment is becoming more understandable among business leaders.

I like a good steak but setting off the fire alarms (plural) is a big risk when I cook them in my apartment :-). Scorching hot cast iron pan plus meat means some smoke is unavoidable. And that's the proper way to do it.

The problem with many business leaders is that they don't necessarily understand the businesses they lead very well. That's common for CEOs running a tech company without a tech background. There's a long history of business leaders with MBAs throwing away the baby with the bathwater when they get a bit too enthusiastic cutting cost. It's why Boeing is such a mess. It's why Intel is no longer considered a leader in innovative chips. The likes of Nvidia and Apple are running circles around them. It's why IBM is now a consulting company that hasn't really produced any tech product worth mentioning this century. The only time they are in the news is when they do another layoff round to make share holders happy. They are incapable of innovating because the people that did that have long since left.

In the hands of somebody competent, you can do great things with AI. But if you can't tell good from bad technically, you won't know that you are creating a big stinky mess until it's far too late.

On a positive note, there will be plenty of work for competent techies to come in and straighten things out on a freelance or consultant basis (I'm available for that sort of thing but not cheap). With the help of AI of course. No need to go back to doing things manually. I think a lot of companies will realize they need help in the next years to speed things up, to improve quality, etc. They'll be very opinionated about what they want and used to getting what they want quickly.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#65
post #19

I hope and believe that some great companies and teams will use LLMs to build higher quality software. We built Electron because writing UIs using native desktop frameworks is tough. Is it still tough? Surely LLMs make it easier to use and so we will end up with faster and more native feeling applications. What about having a couple of ideas of what might make a feature feel good? Well now you can make multiple proto…

It will be a push and pull and I'm curious where we'll be in a couple of years.

I can fly at 100mph if I let AI run loose and with a bit of steering I can get it to output what I'm looking for and generally pass verification and tests.

If I care about the code though, and I want to keep it maintainable, the amount of time and tokens I need to spend correcting and iterating on the output quickly eats through much of the initial time I saved, to the point where I'm unsure if I'm actually saving much time at the end of the process.

With hobby projects I lean on quality more, and the async nature of AI also makes this much easier to make progress without needing my full attention to do so.

In the corporate world, there's both the pressure to accelerate with AI, but also maintain code and product quality. The dials of one way or the other are more obvious now, but I don't believe it's possible to do both with the current models and harnesses without exponential cost.

What is interesting though, is I'm now leaning towards faster models rather than smarter ones.

Intelligence lets me bite off larger chunks of work at once, and trust the model to behave without having to watch it intensely, but doesn't seem to drive down the number of iterations required to hit my desired quality.

Faster models means the iterations I'll have to go through regardless will complete much faster and gets me closer to a proper flow state. Models will keep improving, but maybe we're getting near "smart enough" and the race will pivot to performance > intelligence.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#67

I take the point, but I think the author picked a poor analogy. Cooking even an excellent steak is actually not that hard. In fact, I'd argue that it's among the easiest things to master/make at a top level quality at home. Does it require some modicum of attention and understanding? Sure. But starting with a high quality cut, owning a meat-thermometer, and knowing about reverse searing is about all it takes to relia…

I'm more of a coffee nerd than a steak aficionado but I've often made the comparison between those two. In both cases, the enthusiast considers their skill in making coffee/cooking steak to be a differentiator and they immerse themselves deeply into the process, skills, and tools. But for both coffee beans and steak the most important factor for a good end product is starting with high quality inputs. In other words,…

To achieve the best outcomes, I agree.

But even a cheap steak can be decent if it's cooked properly. And an expensive prime cut can be ruined by cooking it improperly.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#68
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you still blaming this on “the government”? Is your thesis that the business world would be delivering high quality products and experiences if only those damned bureaucrats would get out of the way? What possible evidence do you have left for that hypothesis at this point? EDIT: this was a misread on my part, retracted, carry on.

He is saying "if we apply (or are applying) the same business mentality to government, we will get literally the worst government we are willing to tolerate based on money" It's not blaming. It's an explanation for probably why things can go wrong.

Gotcha, ok - I’m misreading it. Thank you.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#69

I take the point, but I think the author picked a poor analogy. Cooking even an excellent steak is actually not that hard. In fact, I'd argue that it's among the easiest things to master/make at a top level quality at home. Does it require some modicum of attention and understanding? Sure. But starting with a high quality cut, owning a meat-thermometer, and knowing about reverse searing is about all it takes to relia…

Agreed. I'm an avid cook. Sous vide circulators are cheap now, and so are meat thermometers. Doing a steak well is one of the easiest cooking tasks, to the extent that I won't bother paying top dollar in a restaurant because it's so easy to do restaurant quality at home. I could teach someone to cook a restaurant quality steak in a couple hours and a few practice runs.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#70
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you still blaming this on “the government”? Is your thesis that the business world would be delivering high quality products and experiences if only those damned bureaucrats would get out of the way? What possible evidence do you have left for that hypothesis at this point? EDIT: this was a misread on my part, retracted, carry on.

He isn't blaming the software problem on the government. He is saying that if we apply this reasoning to everything in our lives , then we have a race to the bottom in other facets, of which one is government.

Yep, I see it now. Thank you.
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