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Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

cnn.com

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Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#21

Post by Legend2440 »

JohnFen wrote: post #8
boc wrote: post #2

One under-discussed topic is whether Americans hate data centers in their neighborhoods, or whether they actually just hate gas turbine generators running 24/7 in their neighborhoods.

At least in my part of the US, the datacenters built (and planned) are not running their own gas generators, but are just as hated here as they are most other places due to the other adverse impacts they have.

I don't really think it's about the adverse impacts.

That one in utah everybody hated was gonna be built in an empty valley. There would have been no impact to neighbors because there weren't any, and no impact to the grid because they planned to build their own nuclear power plant.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#22

Post by Lucasoato »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #15

The rumor is going around on X that foreign enemies of the US (especially China) are trying to influence Americans through social networks against building data centers.

I’m extremely suspicious of this, but have no way to prove it or collect data related to it.

Even more, I’d really doubt that is a US interest to let the public know if such campaign is happening against non-US countries, so I don’t expect Meta, X or whatever to kindly inform me about that.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#23

Post by georgemcbay »

boc wrote: post #2

One under-discussed topic is whether Americans hate data centers in their neighborhoods, or whether they actually just hate gas turbine generators running 24/7 in their neighborhoods.

I'm sure there are various reasons why specific individual Americans hate data centers, but in the aggregate I think the main unifying force is that Americans hate the rapidly growing (and already larger than the gilded age) wealth inequality that is making their lives shittier if they don't already own significant capital.

At a national level, the political establishment is doing nothing useful to fix this problem and is instead making things much worse. Many people are very upset about this, but it is is going to take years to fix this problem electorally (though I do believe it is possible for this to happen, given all the recent evidence that giant political money spends on status quo candidates are increasingly not working and arguably starting to have the opposite effect of being toxic for the candidates who receive them).

Data centers are a flashpoint of leverage where the rightfully pissed off populace has the ability to use local political power to take a stand and throw a wrench into the system today rather than 2/4/6/8 years from now.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#24

Post by rtkwe »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #15

The rumor is going around on X that foreign enemies of the US (especially China) are trying to influence Americans through social networks against building data centers.

There are plenty of reasons to be against datacenters and I see some people trying to say the possibility that it's foreign influence illegitimates the opposition.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#25

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Interesting video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bbe-Ev-Yns) explains how water consumption is a nearly fixed unit per DC and will be the major limiting factor in DC growth. The physics of heat removal requires water at one stage or another (evaporative cooling at the DC, or cooling the power plant to generate power to dry-chill at the DC) and we have a finite amount of water.

Even if people weren't protesting DCs, we would hit peak DC when we run out of water, which isn't far off. A major drought will likely disable large amounts of the economy that depends on AI that depends on water.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#26

Post by kdheiwns »

woah wrote: post #4

It's sad. For all the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity (or lost it long ago), we can't even handle some of the lightest industry possible. A big building that hums and releases slightly warm water, and the only sector in which we could still be called a world leader. Instead of trying to find property tax arrangements that work to give municipalities a big payoff, and power supply arrangements that…

All hours humming is absolute torture and anyone who dismisses it has lived a very privileged life. Low humming penetrates walls, goes through ear plugs, and can be felt by the body. It carries for miles. It's inescapable. It makes it impossible to focus. It ruins sleep and destroys health. If I were the CIA and I wanted to demoralize a population and also cause a violent uprising, I'd have low bass humming constantly howling in the background within earshot of residential areas.

Years ago, I lived in a town where low humming would start up in the early mornings and go for hours. It drove me insane with the back of my mind trying to figure out what was causing it while simultaneously trying to ignore it and failing. I moved far away but sometimes I hear a rumble that goes on a little too long and that sense of dread starts to creep back into my mind.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#27

Post by Retric »

mapping365 wrote: post #9

I think it can't be categorized as NIMBYism because the underlying sentiment is not just no data centers in my backyard, but anyones backyard. It's about the AI project itself, even if it expresses itself differently for a local context.

NIMBY may be the incorrect term, but objecting to building something that raises your electricity bill extends how far your “back yard” goes. Objecting because it raises your ram prices extends that to a global scale.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#28

Post by CodingJeebus »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #15

The rumor is going around on X that foreign enemies of the US (especially China) are trying to influence Americans through social networks against building data centers.

Of course a company like X has an incentive to push a narrative like that, given their AI position. People are concerned about their property values, utility prices, etc. It's not hard to see why the average person doesn't want one of these built in their backyard.

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#29

Post by mostlysimilar »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #15

The rumor is going around on X that foreign enemies of the US (especially China) are trying to influence Americans through social networks against building data centers.

SV has done enough to influence Americans to hate them without the help of foreign enemies.

https://jasmi.news/p/no-data-centers-in-my-backyard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbgvTlt1VB8

Re: Americans are rallying against data centers. Surprisingly few are getting built

#30

Post by gyanchawdhary »

Coming from a third world country (emerging/developing for the sensitive souls) .. and having many friends from former Soviet countries, one thing we all seem to agree on is the sheer luxury rich countries have .. it’s like a cancer of prosperity .. where a society becomes so successful that it starts attacking the very things that created its success ..
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